Church Doctrine VS. God's Word

[Blade]

Not to be picky forgive me yet.. I think when talking about God in this area we should. 99.9? There are over 30 million Churches. Maybe "this is what I believe 99.9 Churches should believe?" haha sorry

 

[persistent]

Was Noah obeying Gods word and building the ark Salvic?” In the same way baptism has the operation of faith

the boat was a product of Noah hearing God believing and this formed his actions

Christian’s hear about baptism for remission of sins believe it and faith forms thier next action

if we don’t know about baptism for remission of sins and if we do know about baptism for remission of sins determines it’s value and necessaty

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if I know I need to get baptized for remission and don’t do it it becomes transgression if I dont know about it it’s not required

According to verses of Lk.12:47-48 is it likely that some of those stripes are administered in this life?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Every time that I tried to study the scriptures I mistakenly thought there were too many scriptures that contradicted each other, mostly with the salvation scriptures. When I was 50 years old I thought I was smart enough to figure them out, if I purchased a concordance, and studied enough. It took me 12 Years of study until I gave up and told God that I would just have to live my life without having the knowledge of the truth.

Was not very long after, that the salvation scriptures began to harmonize. Looking back, I realised if the Holy Spirit had revealed the truth to me, with my prideful attitude, I would have taken credit for myself, instead of giving God the credit.

No one, that I know of on this forum, agrees with my interpretation of the scriptures. But I don't let that bother me, because I think that I have been given the knowledge of Christ's doctrine, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, an this doctrine was not popular with the majority of God's born again children when Jesus taught it.

God has withheld this doctrine from most of his born again children, for reasons that I do not know. Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach this doctrine to the lost sheep of the household of Israel, which are those that he blinded to the truth.

I feel compelled to try to inform those that do not understand the doctrine of its truths, knowing that unless they deny their own entelect the Holy Spirit will not reveal.

If you have any questions about the doctrine, I would be more than happy to try to answer them.

Unbelievable. This was/is a fascinating read.

 

[persistent]

Unbelievable. This was/is a fascinating read.

1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[Wansvic]

I think he would say you didn't get saved until you got baptized. Either way it makes grace conditioned upon an action which would nullify grace alone as the source of salvation. It just becomes another works gospel.

Grace is seen in God's loving kindness in making a way of salvation for man who in no way deserved it. Obeying the God-given command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is an essential part of one's spiritual rebirth. Paul explained the spiritual reality that occurs when people who believe get baptized; they are being buried with Jesus into His death:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:..." Rom 6:3-4

 

[Wansvic]

someone who is baptized in the Holy Spirit but not water baptized will be saved ... however much we think people should be water baptized, and we do, yet it is not salvic

It is a salvation issue according to the word of God. Scripture states that obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is when sins are remitted. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) And only those who are indwelt with the Holy Spirit as well are considered God's children. (Rom. 8:9) This truth was established when the church was birthed, (Acts 2:38-41) and later spread into all nations. (Acts 8:12-18, 10:43-48) The biblical record also clarifies that the same applies to each individual. (Acts 19:1-7, 22:16)

 

[Cameron143]

Grace is seen in God's loving kindness in making a way of salvation for man who in no way deserved it. Obeying the God-given command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is an essential part of one's spiritual rebirth. Paul explained the spiritual reality that occurs when people who believe get baptized; they are being buried with Jesus into His death:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:..." Rom 6:3-4

Thanks for sharing. You obviously believe differently than I do and I doubt anything I write will change that. But I do appreciate your taking the time to respond. Grace and peace.

 

[Wansvic]

Baptism in water is an ordinance it is not a sacrament, nothing is imparted by it.

... we do not believe in sacraments, they are the start of the slippery slope which leads to priestcraft.

Saying nothing is imparted by baptism is not correct. According to the word, a person's sin is remitted when they believe and obey God's command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) It was Jesus who made this possible through His death, burial and resurrection. As Paul explained, a spiritual reality takes place during baptism. People who are baptized have been buried with Jesus into His death wherein their sins are destroyed. (Romans 6:3-6)

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

What is your point? Is this your way of encouraging people? I don't understand the need for discouragement at this point.

 

[persistent]

What is your point? Is this your way of encouraging people? I don't understand the need for discouragement at this point.

Some comments seem to focus attention on the one posting having 'special' insight. I am respectfully directing to what seems the appropriate passages of scripture as applicable. On occasion there may be error on the part of any and all posts and also 'misinterpretation', 'misunderstanding', and 'misapplication' or even "nonapplication' of scripture.

 

[Wansvic]

“And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if I know I need to get baptized for remission and don’t do it it becomes transgression if I dont know about it it’s not required

I was pondering the scripture you referenced and immediately recalled the scripture pertaining to ignorance. Scripture states that God no longer winks at ignorance, meaning it is no longer an excuse for disobedience. All are required to repent. (Acts 17:30) Also consider that those in Heaven will not be subject to punishment. And lastly, those who still have the stain of sin upon them have no hope of entering Heaven. (John 3:3-5) As such, I believe the Luke scripture you reference pertains to different levels of punishment for those destined for Hell. Scriptures such as, Matt. 10:14-15; 23:14, Luke 10:14-15, John 19:11, 2 Thess. 1:7-8 speak of degrees of punishment.

Many express situations such as death bed confessions, etc. in an attempt to dispel the idea that water baptism is necessary. However, the bible shows time and again that God does not waver. He means what He says.

It may sound harsh, but how many times in peoples lives, myself included, did God attempt to get one's attention only to be ignored? How many times was an invitation to hear God's truth rejected? How many television or radio stations were switched that would have enlightened individuals to God's truth? You no doubt get my point. Everyone is presented with, and accountable for their choices. This concept is not popular in this day and age. Nonetheless it is true. Man is without excuse.

 

[Wansvic]

Yeh but we are not taught to build an ark we are told to believe on the Lord Jesus and we shall be saved. Cornelius was saved without baptism in water and quite possibly many of Paul's converts for God did not send him to baptise.

Baptism is a Jewish ordinance. I am baptised in water but I was saved and baptized in the Holy Ghost before then.

An important point about Cornelius and the others present, is they were all commanded to be baptized in water as well.

Obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is required of all those living in the NT; Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans. (half Jewish and half Gentile) Consider that all of the world's population are descendants of one of these groups.

 

[persistent]

I was pondering the scripture you referenced and immediately recalled the scripture pertaining to ignorance. Scripture states that God no longer winks at ignorance, meaning it is no longer an excuse for disobedience. All are required to repent. (Acts 17:30) Also consider that those in Heaven will not be subject to punishment. And lastly, those who still have the stain of sin upon them have no hope of entering Heaven. (John 3:3-5) As such, I believe the Luke scripture you reference pertains to different levels of punishment for those destined for Hell. Scriptures such as, Matt. 10:14-15; 23:14, Luke 10:14-15, John 19:11, 2 Thess. 1:7-8 speak of degrees of punishment.

Many express situations such as death bed confessions, etc. in an attempt to dispel the idea that water baptism is necessary. However, the bible shows time and again that God does not waver. He means what He says.

It may sound harsh, but how many times in peoples lives, myself included, did God attempt to get one's attention only to be ignored? How many times was an invitation to hear God's truth rejected? How many television or radio stations were switched that would have enlightened individuals to God's truth? You no doubt get my point. Everyone is presented with, and accountable for their choices. This concept is not popular in this day and age. Nonetheless it is true. Man is without excuse.

Got to agree as little as I would like to!!!!! Particularly with the scriptures which convict! Makes me think, a Shakespeare play where the pirates say they must throw out the commandment on stealing else there pursuits are ruined. I would sure like to throw out some verses which may also have been the way President Jefferson did with scripture?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Some comments seem to focus attention on the one posting having 'special' insight. I am respectfully directing to what seems the appropriate passages of scripture as applicable. On occasion, there may be errors on the part of any and all posts and also 'misinterpretation', 'misunderstanding', and 'misapplication' or even "nonapplication' of scripture.

Okie dokie.

 

[Wansvic]

Got to agree as little as I would like to!!!!! Particularly with the scriptures which convict! Makes me think, a Shakespeare play where the pirates say they must throw out the commandment on stealing else there pursuits are ruined. I would sure like to throw out some verses which may also have been the way President Jefferson did with scripture?

President Jefferson?

 

[persistent]

President Jefferson?

Should have made clear Thomas Jefferson. I have never seen the Bible he owned but it supposedly has cut out of it the scripture passages he either didn't like or disagreed with.

Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743 – July 4, 1826) was an American statesman, diplomat, lawyer, architect, philosopher, and Founding Father who served as the ...
Notable work: Declaration of Independence ...‎
Parents: Peter Jefferson (father); ‎Jane Randolph‎ ...‎
Era: Age of Enlightenment

 

[Wansvic]

President Jefferson?

@persistent Thanks for the comment. I was unaware of President Jefferson's beliefs. I enjoy learning new things. Evidently he was a deist.

Deism or “the religion of nature” was a form of rational theology that emerged among “freethinking” Europeans in the 17th and 18th centuries. Deists insisted that religious truth should be subject to the authority of human reason rather than divine revelation.

 

[Wansvic]

Should have made clear Thomas Jefferson. I have never seen the Bible he owned but it supposedly has cut out of it the scripture passages he either didn't like or disagreed with.

Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743 – July 4, 1826) was an American statesman, diplomat, lawyer, architect, philosopher, and Founding Father who served as the ...
Notable work: Declaration of Independence ...‎
Parents: Peter Jefferson (father); ‎Jane Randolph‎ ...‎
Era: Age of Enlightenment

I realized who you meant. I just wasn't familiar with his beliefs or that he removed scriptures from his bible. Interesting.

 

[Wansvic]

@persistentThanks again for your comment about President Jefferson. Wow. It is crazy what some people believe and do in their attempts to change the word of God:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smit...as-jefferson-created-his-own-bible-180975716/

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Should have made clear Thomas Jefferson. I have never seen the Bible he owned but it supposedly has cut out of it the scripture passages he either didn't like or disagreed with.

Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743 – July 4, 1826) was an American statesman, diplomat, lawyer, architect, philosopher, and Founding Father who served as the ...
Notable work: Declaration of Independence ...‎
Parents: Peter Jefferson (father); ‎Jane Randolph‎ ...‎
Era: Age of Enlightenment

He, like Ben Franklin, are often quoted by those who think they are Scripture.
Ie. "God helps those who help themselves."
I've even heard church goers quote them and I ask what chapter and verse. They'll say "It's in there!"

Jefferson is sadly in hell right now according to the last verses of our own KJV.
You are right, he cut out what he rejected.
That includes reducing Jesus to be merely a moral man. He rejected the Trinity, essential doctrines and even miracles.

Jefferson said that he cut the Bible up verse by verse, and the good parts stuck out “as diamonds in a dung hill.”

Those are words of a man who was once enlightened and tasted of the truth, only to reject it.