Church Doctrine VS. God's Word

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Cameron143

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Clearly we do not see the same thing from scripture. I will leave you with this thought. Consider a common theme in the scriptures you present, there is the mention of those who are "in Him." (Christ Jesus) And according to Paul that takes place when people believe and obey the command to be baptized. And as revealed in scripture, water baptism is to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus because it was He who was crucified for everyone. (1 Cor. 1:13, Acts 2:38...) Being water baptized in titles rather than in His NAME is not being obedient to Jesus' command. (Matt. 28:19) It was only after recognizing what Jesus actually said that I took a step of faith and obeyed His command that my eyes were truly opened. May God bless!

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6:3-6
You inadvertently stumbled onto the answer but misapplied it when you wrote that you realized what Jesus actually said. You were blessed like Peter because flesh and blood didn't reveal it to you but God. And having heard it you believed. And having believed you responded in faith.
It was actually faith that led to your action.
 

Thewatchman

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Due to church discipline, there is some of God's born again children who have the promise of eternal inheritance, that the church will not accept as members of the church.
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Turntail and run as fast as you can from that place. If God will except them but the church discipline will not that is not Gods church.
 

ForestGreenCook

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WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Turntail and run as fast as you can from that place. If God will except them but the church discipline will not that is not Gods church.

The sins are forgiven for all of those that Christ died for on the cross, and have their eternal inheritance of heaven secured, however they still commit sins as they sojourn here on earth. Those that Christ died for, and are actively living in a sinful way still have not lost their eternal inheritance, but the visible church will not accept them as members.

There is an invisible church, (the larger outer wheel in Ezk 10:10) that includes all of God's elect, and there is an visible church (rhe smaller inner wheel in Ezk 10:10) which includes a small part of those elect (the remnant of the household of Israel Zeph 3:13)

Rom 11:5 - Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The remnant have been revealed, by the righteousness of God, the truth of what his Son accomplished on the cross. Rom 10:1-3.

The two gates in Matt 7:13-14, also, harmonizes with Ezk 10:10. The larger outer wheel (the invisible church) being those of God's elect who are teaching false doctrines, and the straight gate being those of God's elect (the remnant).

There will not be "a few" in heaven, but they will be counted as the sand in the sea, and the stars in the heaven (Gen 32:11-12).
 

Thewatchman

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What does it mean to be a Christian?

This comes from the Billy Grahame Evangelical Ass.

Some years ago, I was in a cab when I asked the driver about his faith. He replied that he was a Christian, and I asked him how he became one. I’ll never forget his reply: “Oh, I was born a Christian.” But those who belong to Christ know that it’s impossible to be born a Christian because we start out with a sin-infected nature, lost and separated from God.

People often use the term “Christian” as simply a category for describing someone’s cultural, religious, or family heritage. Other people believe that a person is a Christian because he or she attends church or was raised in a godly home. For still others, the term “Christian” is no more than a box to check off on an application or survey form.

So what is a Christian? Jesus said that His true followers are those who have been “born again” by the Spirit of God. When a Jewish religious leader named Nicodemus came to talk with Jesus one night, he declared that God was with Jesus because of all the miraculous signs Jesus performed. Jesus had this penetrating response: “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. … Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (John 3:3, 6, NIV).

The phrase “born again” in Scripture literally means “to be born from above”–a spiritual rebirth. A Christian is a man, woman, or child who has experienced a spiritual new birth through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. That new birth is a gift of God, through Jesus Christ, given by the grace He freely offers to all.

Some believe you can be born into a faith. For example, a child born to Muslim parents is considered a Muslim by many people. A son or daughter born to a Jewish mother is typically considered to be Jewish, and someone born into a Christian family is often assumed to be a Christian. No one, however, is ever automatically a Christian by birth. To be a Christian, you must make a conscious choice to turn from your sins–that’s repentance–and by faith believe that Jesus is the Son of God, who loved us, paid the price of our sins on Calvary’s cross, shed His blood and died, was buried, and was raised to life on the third day.

The Bible says, “This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him” (1 John 4:9). The Bible also says that “if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9). The moment we do so, the Holy Spirit makes us alive in Christ, imparting the gift of eternal life, and making us entirely new creatures in Christ (see 2 Corinthians 5:17).
 

Thewatchman

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2nd Corinthians 5

11Therefore, since we know what it means to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well.



Just what does it mean to fear the Lord.

Strong's Greek 5401: (a) fear, terror, alarm, (b) the object or cause of fear, (c) reverence, respect. From a primary phebomai; alarm or fright.



We as Christians need to have a respect, and a reverence for God at all times and all ways.



We try to persuade men:

When was the last time away from this site that you tried to persuade someone that you are a christian; and that they should get saved and join you on your walk with God. Do people in the community look at you and say there is a person I would like to work for or have work for me, he fair to his employees, he treats them with respect and kindness, or would an employer say that is why he would want you to come to fork for them your attitude, your work habits would someone from the outside looking in say that is the type marriage I want or that is the type boy or girl I want my son or daughter to date or to marry. Your life should be a consent call to people to come and join you in your christian walk. Are you going to be perfect No, is everyone going to react to you in a positive way no. True story I went to work for the V.A. For a time and there were 4 of that worked together one evening I get a phone call from one of the girls she was real upset she and her boyfriend had gotten into a fight because she asked him if he ever told the people at work or his friends if he ever told them how good looking, how kind, etc. she was and he got upset with her and told her he did not want to see her anymore. She wanted to know how come she could not find someone like me that always had something good to say about my wife. Perfect way to witness to her.



What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well:

Remember Paul is writing this letter to the church at Corinth he is telling them that what he is teaching and the type of Christian he is; is clear to God and Paul is not worried about what God sees in him. What he wants is for the people of Corinth to see and understand that his intentions are pure towards God and to them. He said the following:

2nd Corinthians 4

1Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

We through the mercy, the love, the strength Jesus has given us sense we have given ourselves to Him, (that is the unmerited favor He gives us whether we have earned it or not) asked for His forgiveness He gives us the strength that we need to achieve our goals in the ministry. This is not by anything we can do and the goal is different for everyone of us; but the strength, confidence, Etc. all comes from Him and the truth of his word. This is why it is so important to make sure you check out the teaching you get from Gods word. Do not take my word or any other mans word for it until you have checked it out.



2But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

The "hidden things" are those things that are cunning and crafty, the Word of God puts the light of God on those things and shows them for the evil that they are. This is Satan's way, to be subtle and deceiving and presenting things twisted to make dishonest and deceitful things to appear to be true. To handle the "Word of God" deceitfully is done when a teacher or minister give out one verse, and then spout off to twist that verse to form what they desire it to say, other than what the Word actually says.



3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

We have to be careful here. Hid from who? Them that are lost. This is not just for the person out there that does not believe in God or Jesus. There are a lot of “Christians” that set in church every time the doors are open but are not fed have no idea what Gods word says because they get the church doctrine and not Gods word. Ref. 2 Corinthian 11:12-15

12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. You have to make sure you get your fruit from the right tree.



4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Small “g” god that is Satan. This ties right into the “ministers of light” from the reference above.



5For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

In terms we understand Paul is saying: We Paul and those that are with him do not preach for money, fame, ECT. They preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified, risen from the dead, and the only name in which on can have salvation and eternal life.



6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

The light that shines out of the darkness and into our hearts is behind the veil. That light can not be seen visually with the flesh eye, however it shines in the mind of the soul whereby that light of truth will penetrate to your heart and mind to give you the knowledge of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Your eyes reflect the mirror of your soul. Christ is the Living Word that brings forth knowledge, wisdom and understanding and insight into God's Word.



I Thessalonians 5:1 "But of the times of the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you."

Those with eyes to see and understand the light of God's Word, may not know the exact instant of Jesus return at the seventh trump, but we do know the seasons and events that come prior to His coming. We know that the six trumpets must sound first and come to pass before the seventh will happen.

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

I Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, "Peace and safety;" then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Sudden destruction comes instantly when Satan arrives at the Sixth trumpet, for those that are looking for their rapture event will be so taken by Satan that they will instantly think that Satan is Christ. They will do this because they have been taught to do so through their traditions and doctrines. To those with the eyes to see the truth of God's Word, we will be expecting this to happen, we will see Satan come with all his tricks and supernatural powers, and we will know him for the liar and deceiver that he is.

I Thessalonians 5:4 "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

Satan is the prince of darkness.

I Thessalonians 5:5 "Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness."

You simply cannot be both a child of the day and of the night, For those children of the night have the veil over them to where they cannot understand the truths of God's Word. The children of the day have that veil lifter from their spiritual eyes, and the Holy Spirit shines the knowledge of truth into their minds.

I Thessalonians 5:6 "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

So Paul is telling us to wake up to the times that we are living in. Watch for those events that are going on daily, and apply those events to God's Word so that we are not caught knapping like the children of darkness will be. Because you are children of light make sure there is no darkness, misunderstanding and trickery within you. When you have eyes to see, and you have become children of light, you will have a clearer understand of the Word.
 

Thewatchman

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I have used 3 different versions of the bible so that it might make it easier to understand. I myself use the King James 1611 Authorized Version.

1st Corinthian's 15:45

English Standard Version
Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
Berean Standard Bible
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit.
King James Bible
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The first first man Adam. This is very important to understand and I will tell you what John Ray my teacher told me. If there is something you do not understand please ask I will try and answer it and if I can't I will find out the answer. The other thing is if you don't quite understand something just put it on the shelf and come back to it later.

Genesis 1:26

English Standard Version
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Berean Standard Bible
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”

King James Bible
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeper upon the earth.

Genesis 1:27

English Standard Version
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Berean Standard Bible
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

King James Bible
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Notice what God said here God created he him male and female. We are going to come back to that.

Genesis 1:28

English Standard Version
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Berean Standard Bible
God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”

King James Bible
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that movement upon the earth.

They were given dominion over the fish (fisherman) Fowl of the air and every living that moves upon the earth. (hunters and headsman)

Genesis 1:29

English Standard Version
And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.

Berean Standard Bible
Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every seed-bearing plant on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit contains seed. They will be yours for food.

King James Bible
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

This last group are gathers of seeds, herbs, fruit and vegetables.

Genesis 1:30

English Standard Version
And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

Berean Standard Bible
And to every beast of the earth and every bird of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth—everything that has the breath of life in it—I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

King James Bible
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creeper upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

And that is the way that God intended it to be.

Genesis 1:31

King James Bible
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

This verse read the same in all three versions. God did not say that what He had made man and animal . . . He did not say they were Good but that they were Very Good.

Genesis 2:1

again I am just giving 1 verse

King James Bible
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Genesis 2:2

King James Bible
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

The heavens and the earth were finished. The seventh day God had ended all his work and He rested

Genesis 2:3

King James Bible
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Everything was finished; or was it?

Running out of words will have to pick it up later.
 

Thewatchman

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Genesis 2:4


King James Bible
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,



Generations Strong's Concordance means history. That is the history from everything from verse 1 all the way to Genesis 2:4 The day after God rested and set the sabbath up for man.



Genesis 2:5

Berean Standard Bible
Now no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth, nor had any plant of the field sprouted; for the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.

King James Bible
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Do not over look what this verse says Genesis 1:30 talked about the trees, plants etc for the wild animals and man. What does this verse say no plant, no herb of the field. There were no crops. No corn, wheat, no barley ect. Why was that? Reason 1 God had not made it rain upon the earth; but that had not stopped the trees and wild plants from growing; Why? They had the waters from day 3 of creation. Reason # 2 This is the big one. If you do not understand the beginning you will never fully understand the end. THERE WAS NO MAN TO TILL THE GROUND. God mad man on the 6th day to be hunters, fishermen, gatherers and herdsman. God had not made a farmer.



Genesis 2:6

Berean Standard Bible
But springs welled up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

King James Bible
But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

The whole ground was wet for the first time. So what did God do? Lets find out.



Genesis 2:7

New King James Version
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.



I am going to copy chapter 1:27&28 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that movement upon the earth.

Using the common sense that God gave you look at these to descriptions and tell me they are the same. Chapter one God created male and female. Chapter 2 says God took the dust of the earth.

This is the first place in the bible where dust is used. It is # 6083 in the Hebrew of the Strong's Concordance. Dust; hence, clay, earth, mud, ashes.

As the potter takes the clay God took the dust of the earth and formed Adam and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. The spirit, and man became a living being. Did God give the people on the 6th day a spirit He sure did just like every other person from the fall of Adam until today 9/30/2022 till Jesus returns. If that is not enough reason to understand who the first man Adam was lets jump to the 2:21-23 21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

How could Adam and Eve been the first people created on the 6th day if Eve came from Adam's rib and was created countless days after the 6th day of creation.

When we stop and read Gods word with understanding and the leading of the Holy Spirit and leave all the traditions of man to the side Gods word makes sense.


Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
 
Jul 20, 2022
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Church doctrine vs. God's word



Church Doctrine Gods Word

#1. God's word is truth God's word is truth

#2. God is all seeing and all knowing God is all seeing and all knowing

#3. Jesus died on the cross for our sins Jesus died for our sins

#4. God is 3 in one, God the Father, God is the 3 in one, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit

God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit



I would have to say that 99.9% of all christian churches would agree with these 4 beliefs.

Lets look at one that is a little more tricky That is baptism There Are those that say you must be baptized before you are saved They use scripture like Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then you have Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Some will say Jesus said he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved they forget the second part of the verse;He that believeth not shall be damned. Baptism is not involved in being damned so why should it be a requirement for salvation.

Lets look at the other side of the coin Ephesians 2:8&9 8.For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9.Not of works, lest any man should boast. If we include baptism into salvation that means that it is not just the blood of Jesus that forgives but it is the blood of Jesus and my getting int o the water some putting me under the water and me getting back up and out to be saved. That is not just the blood of Jesus, and that gives me something to boast about.

Those that say you have to be baptized before you are saved let me put this to you. Lets say you live in some place like Kansas that it normally does not get cold enough to have the pipes freeze but sometimes it dose. So Saturday night they get that freak deep freeze it freezes the water pipes a church the baptismal can not be filled. Some people still show up and one person is new hears the message and wants to get saved. The pastor and several people pray with him but he can not get baptized because of the frozen pipes. He is driving on that icy road someone is going to fast looses control hits him and kills him. Is God going to send him to hell because he did not get baptized? The church doctrine says he was not baptized therefore he was not saved.

Gods word The Bible says Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

No baptism needed.
Yes, it is scripturally true that 'baptism' is NOT for salvation, but taking a stand publicly for embracing our Savior: Jesus Christ; and it should show one is honoring God, determined to live for God, in His "..beloved Son". However, there are those who are baptized that think they thus have an entrance into Heaven, which is NOT true, and contrary to John 3:16; Romans 8: 1-9, 1 Jn. 5:10-12, which shows the truth (possession of Jesus Christ).
-1ambassador
 

Thewatchman

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Jun 19, 2021
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Yes, it is scripturally true that 'baptism' is NOT for salvation, but taking a stand publicly for embracing our Savior: Jesus Christ; and it should show one is honoring God, determined to live for God, in His "..beloved Son". However, there are those who are baptized that think they thus have an entrance into Heaven, which is NOT true, and contrary to John 3:16; Romans 8: 1-9, 1 Jn. 5:10-12, which shows the truth (possession of Jesus Christ).
-1ambassador
Yes, it is scripturally true that 'baptism' is NOT for salvation, but taking a stand publicly for embracing our Savior: Jesus Christ; and it should show one is honoring God, determined to live for God, in His "..beloved Son". However, there are those who are baptized that think they thus have an entrance into Heaven, which is NOT true, and contrary to John 3:16; Romans 8: 1-9, 1 Jn. 5:10-12, which shows the truth (possession of Jesus Christ).
-1ambassador
As I have said throughout this thread we should get baptized Jesus set the example for us but those that say baptism is needed for salvation is taking away from what Jesus did on the cross. I agree 100% with you and thank you for taking the time to read and respond.
 

Thewatchman

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Pick your fruit from the right tree​

New Living Translation
But if you don’t believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things
Berean Standard Bible
If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?
King James Bible
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?



Jesus uses things that we know about to help us understand the deeper heavenly things.

As we go through this you will begin to see the building blocks come together.



John 15:

Verse 1. I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

I am the true vine; There is another one out there that would like you to believe he is the true vine but he is a fake. Satan.

I am sure 99% of you understand what I am explaining next but it is important.

The vine is like the trunk of the tree it is connected to the roots and delivers the needed food, water, minerals ect needed for the tree or vine to grow limbs that will then produce the fruit.

My Father is the husbandman. Husbandman is the farmer, or keeper of the fields, orchards, vineyards etc.
Definition of husbandman

1: one that plows and cultivates land : FARMER

2: a specialist in a branch of farm husbandry



It is God that insures the entire farm is well kept, is well protected from the little foxes that want to run and play in the vineyard and destroy the blossoms, and the young fruit of the trees and fields. It is the farmer, husbandmen that insures the vineyard, fields ect. get watered, and that the dead, and damaged branches are cut away before they ruin the entire vineyard, field crop.



Verse 2.Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Just what are the branches? We the true body of Christ and we will prove that from verse 5 of this chapter. If we do not produce fruit we are taken away. Jesus describes new Christians as new born babes. How does a new bore baby produce? They grow, they start to learn how to crawl, walk and then run. They are either bottle fed or breast fed, then milk, then milk and cereal all the way up to solid food. Do not thank that on day one God expects you to know everything you need to know or do; a parent does not expect a new born to be ready for school the day they come home from the hospital or the day the baby is born if at home or somewhere else.



Verse 3. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

What makes us clean?

Romans 10

8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.



Make sure the words that the words your preacher, teacher, the person that is leading you to Christ and should be helping you line up with what Paul has written which came to him through The Holy Spirit. You want to be saved you must confess with your mouth, your own words #1. Confess with your lips “Jesus is Lord” ; Your Lord, you are giving your life over to Him; making Him Lord of your life making Him first above all else. #2. Believe in your heart, your soul, that God raised Him from the dead you shall be saved. You do not have to put money in the plate, you do not have to speak in tongues, you do not have to be baptized on the spot, or any other thing someone may tell you. That is what Gods word said. Paul goes on in verse to tell us God does not care what color, race, gender you are.

Hosea 6:6

English Standard Version
For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.
Berean Standard Bible
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.
King James Bible
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings

Matthew 9:12&13

English Standard Version
But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.

King James Bible
But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

English Standard Version
Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
King James Bible
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.



You may be asking just how does this apply to pick your fruit from the right tree.

If you do not understand the very first steep you will get off on the wrong path. You do not feed a new baby a Rib-Eye not even ground up. Understanding that Jesus wants you to come just as you are as long as you come willingly and with an open heart and you are ready to follow Him, His word,His way.

Running out of words will pick this up later
 

DJT_47

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Oct 20, 2022
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Church doctrine should be solely founded upon God's word. If not, leave that "church" immediately.
 

Franc254

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Oct 7, 2022
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Anyone who says baptism isnt necessary ia doing something very wrong and teaching a diffrent gospel of salvation....Baptism is necessary and very important ...we cannot use this verse to justify lack of baptism....May the name of the Lord be praised....I will give my reasons
 

Franc254

Active member
Oct 7, 2022
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lets start the chapter from Romans chapter 10 verses 8 through to 14



But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”


14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent .......



so the word is near you that if you confess with your heart and you believe in your heart you will be saved....However to understand the importance of baptism to salvation we must go to verse 14....How then shall they call in whom thay have not believed....and suppose you just wake up and mutter these words spoken in verse 9 and somehow you believe in your heart, the person whois aking asks how will you you believe whom youve not heard....now here is the sieve...."and how shall they hear without a preacher? you must hear this word from somebody before you say these words and belive in your heart and finally how shall they preach unless they are sent?....this is the most crucial part....and this brings us back to Mark16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned....so a preacher will tell you the tenets of salvation and what it entails and after you hear the message and you believe it you must be baptized because this is what christ commanded......why are we emphasizing baptism and not just confessing alonee with the mouth and believeing in the heart.....

Acts 9:3-6

As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”


5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. [a]It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”


6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”

Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”....


now Paul had every right to say you know i heard Jesus and now I confess with my mouth and belive in my heart and from today i am a christian....But this is what the Lord tells him...go into the city and you will be told what to do....so the preachng part was mandatory....he had to be told what to do....and what was he told to do.....


Acts 9:17-18 "And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord [d]Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized."


so someone has to preach the gospel which also entails baptism...without these you cannot claim to be a christian....




another good example Acts 8:26-39




Now an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, “Arise and go toward the south along the road which goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is [e]desert. 27 So he arose and went. And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to worship, 28 was returning. And sitting in his chariot, he was reading Isaiah the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go near and overtake this chariot.”


30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”


31 And he said, “
Now an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, “Arise and go toward the south along the road which goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is [e]desert. 27 So he arose and went. And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to worship, 28 was returning. And sitting in his chariot, he was reading Isaiah the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go near and overtake this chariot.”


30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”


31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this:

“He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
And as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
33 In His humiliation His justice was taken away,
And who will declare His generation?
For His life is taken from the earth.”

34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”


37 [f]Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”

And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”


38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. 4


” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this:

“He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
And as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
33 In His humiliation His justice was taken away,
And who will declare His generation?
For His life is taken from the earth.”

34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”


37 [f]Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”

And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”


38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. 4



so the ethiopian eunuch was reading the book of Isaiah and wasnt understanding now even if he wanted to belief this message he couldnt, why? because he was not understanding and thats why he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" so unless you are guided saying the words and confessing wont mean a thing however the one who guided the eunuch did this Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him....so if he preached Jesus to him preaching him about baptism was in th sermon to the eunuch such that the moment the eunuch so water he said what prevents me from being baptized? He had believed everything he had been told about Jesus including the great commision....

Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”

And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”


38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him....


so he belived with all his heart and confessed that Jesus is Lord after which he was baptized just as the Lord had commanded....so this brings us back how will you believe unless youve heard, how will you hear without a preacher telling you about Jesus and everything he had commanded including baptism but they had to be sent...Matthew 28 the great commision.....so baptism is very importantas you say those words.....Ill proceed with this gospel tommorow if God will it....Blessed be the name of the Lord Jesus Christ
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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What does it mean to be a Christian?

This comes from the Billy Grahame Evangelical Ass.

Some years ago, I was in a cab when I asked the driver about his faith. He replied that he was a Christian, and I asked him how he became one. I’ll never forget his reply: “Oh, I was born a Christian.” But those who belong to Christ know that it’s impossible to be born a Christian because we start out with a sin-infected nature, lost and separated from God.

People often use the term “Christian” as simply a category for describing someone’s cultural, religious, or family heritage. Other people believe that a person is a Christian because he or she attends church or was raised in a godly home. For still others, the term “Christian” is no more than a box to check off on an application or survey form.

So what is a Christian? Jesus said that His true followers are those who have been “born again” by the Spirit of God. When a Jewish religious leader named Nicodemus came to talk with Jesus one night, he declared that God was with Jesus because of all the miraculous signs Jesus performed. Jesus had this penetrating response: “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. … Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (John 3:3, 6, NIV).

The phrase “born again” in Scripture literally means “to be born from above”–a spiritual rebirth. A Christian is a man, woman, or child who has experienced a spiritual new birth through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. That new birth is a gift of God, through Jesus Christ, given by the grace He freely offers to all.

Some believe you can be born into a faith. For example, a child born to Muslim parents is considered a Muslim by many people. A son or daughter born to a Jewish mother is typically considered to be Jewish, and someone born into a Christian family is often assumed to be a Christian. No one, however, is ever automatically a Christian by birth. To be a Christian, you must make a conscious choice to turn from your sins–that’s repentance–and by faith believe that Jesus is the Son of God, who loved us, paid the price of our sins on Calvary’s cross, shed His blood and died, was buried, and was raised to life on the third day.

The Bible says, “This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him” (1 John 4:9). The Bible also says that “if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9). The moment we do so, the Holy Spirit makes us alive in Christ, imparting the gift of eternal life, and making us entirely new creatures in Christ (see 2 Corinthians 5:17).

Believing that all of the salvation verses are referring to eternal salvation (deliverance) is a mistake almost all of God's born again children make. Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means "a deliverance". The child of God experiences many deliverances as he sojourns here on earth. Believing that all salvation scriptures are pertaining to eternal will lead a person to believe eternal salvation is gained by their good works. The deliverances (salvations) that we receive here in this world that are not eternal
are gained by our good works.
 
Oct 27, 2022
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Church doctrine vs. God's word



Church Doctrine Gods Word

#1. God's word is truth God's word is truth

#2. God is all seeing and all knowing God is all seeing and all knowing

#3. Jesus died on the cross for our sins Jesus died for our sins

#4. God is 3 in one, God the Father, God is the 3 in one, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit

God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit



I would have to say that 99.9% of all christian churches would agree with these 4 beliefs.

Lets look at one that is a little more tricky That is baptism There Are those that say you must be baptized before you are saved They use scripture like Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then you have Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Some will say Jesus said he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved they forget the second part of the verse;He that believeth not shall be damned. Baptism is not involved in being damned so why should it be a requirement for salvation.

Lets look at the other side of the coin Ephesians 2:8&9 8.For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9.Not of works, lest any man should boast. If we include baptism into salvation that means that it is not just the blood of Jesus that forgives but it is the blood of Jesus and my getting int o the water some putting me under the water and me getting back up and out to be saved. That is not just the blood of Jesus, and that gives me something to boast about.

Those that say you have to be baptized before you are saved let me put this to you. Lets say you live in some place like Kansas that it normally does not get cold enough to have the pipes freeze but sometimes it dose. So Saturday night they get that freak deep freeze it freezes the water pipes a church the baptismal can not be filled. Some people still show up and one person is new hears the message and wants to get saved. The pastor and several people pray with him but he can not get baptized because of the frozen pipes. He is driving on that icy road someone is going to fast looses control hits him and kills him. Is God going to send him to hell because he did not get baptized? The church doctrine says he was not baptized therefore he was not saved.

Gods word The Bible says Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

No baptism needed.
Perhaps we all need to be baptized by the Holy Spirit for eternal redemption.