Are Former Christians Who Later Became Murderers and Anti-Christians Still Saved?

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Not many people are "Saved" to begin with...so the original question is obviously flawed.

However....

What kind of community do you want to live in?
One that Delights in evil?
One that Delights in good?
Communities have evaporated, nations have crumbled many times over the centuries....and they don't end well when they go either.

If they turn away from God and Jesus then they are not saved and if they turn away from Jesus but still believe in a God whether the God of Israel or another god they are not saved.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If a person believes in Jesus as Lord and Savior but then stops believing and believes in an alternate reality whether atheist or another religion then they cannot be saved and they cannot accept the truth and be saved again for God will not allow them to go through the process of being saved again.

When a person stops believing in Jesus then they forfeit forgiveness of their sins and their sins are then on their record and they cannot come back to the truth and believe Jesus is Lord and Savior for God will not allow them to be saved again.

If a person lives in sin and repents then their sins are forgiven and they can be saved but if they fall away which means they abandon the truth to believe in something else then they forfeit salvation which cannot be applied in their life anymore.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

A good example is the new age movement that shall come out in the latter times which is now which is an interpretation of the Bible based on the occult and evolution and people are still evolving to be spiritual, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior but a good teacher and love and evolved to be an ascended master, and believe in no personal God but honor the God of forces or the power of nature as their higher power the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher.

Which the Bible says some shall depart from the faith the truth of the Bible and embrace the new age movement interpretation of the Bible and religions so they cannot come back to the truth and be saved.

But if a person is in the new age movement but has not embraced the truth and embrace the truth then they can be saved for they did not depart from the truth.

God said the time will come when the world will not want to listen to the truth of the Bible but want to hear it according to their own lusts which is when the New Age Christ starts working in the world which he will push the agenda of the new age movement and some people will depart from the truth and embrace the new age movement.

The new age movement is the cause of why the world rebels against God.

Some people believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection of the saints but Paul said let no person deceive you for the gathering of the saints unto Christ shall not happen until the man of sin claims to be God which is in the middle of the 7 years period God is allowing the world to have their way and rebel against Him so He can end sin on earth.

When the resurrection does not happen before the 7 years period it will overthrow the faith of some people that believe in the resurrection happening before the 7 years period and they will embrace the new age movement interpretation of the Bible and religions which they cannot come back to the truth.

yes wivvout reason ... because they were never saved.

But you can't say Russia is or was christian or Germany or Britain ... you can't even say Catholic is saved or Anglican or pentecostal so if the Catholic church turns away from Christ in her doctrines as she did the true disciples will leave her, as with the Pentecostal churches or any other church.

If Russia becomes an evil nation or Germany, throwing off righteousness or America and Britain, Europe. Then each christian who is a true disciple is in a dilemma ...

... if you asked me which at the present time which nation was the more righteous between Russia or America I don't think I could give a definitive answer.

the clue is in the terminology ... saved .... everlasting life .... gift .... made one spirit with the Lord

No clues necessary. I prefer truth.

Yes, that was the point. There has to be a reason for belief, meaning an OBJECT or GOAL of faith, in order to be saved.

Belief in the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth doesn't save anyone. The OBJECT of saving faith is the Lord (Deity) Jesus (humanity) Christ (Messiah).

"But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' For many are called, but few are chosen." Matthew 22:11-14

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 24:45-51

You are welcome Your hubby maybe would notice also if you are getting shorter

I did not notice it with myself: nobody looked taller than usual; my pant legs did not seem
to be getting longer; I did not have to reach farther to get into the higher cupboards.

I guess because it happens over a lengthy period of time? It became apparent to me when
I was being poked and prodded, measured and weighed, sliced and diced, etc, after my
cancer diagnosis almost three years ago. My twin brother has lost at least a couple of
inches as well (he had been about 6' tall) and another sister has osteo but not lost height

But she is a cancer survivor also and had been on Tamoxifen for years, which deters bone loss.

Because of free will, ANY believer can fall into sin and even serious sin. Believers are still in mortal flesh and have the fleshly nature still.

A believer though does have the Holy Spirit indwelling their soul, so.. if they get into serious sin, they will be convicted and rebuked, corrected, chastened. That is what God does with a child of His. Sin will not go without correction.

So then it is unlikely that a believer will become a murderer. But it CAN happen. Free will is no illusion. God does know what we are going to do it's true.. but like a father letting his daughter learn sewing.. He doesn't jump in and stop us every time we hurt ourselves in the process of learning.

What we are really getting at here is what it means to be saved. Of course someone who just repeats a prayer after someone else isn't really going to be salvation. They don't know Jesus is God, haven't really thought about His atonement and sinless life.

But salvation isn't 'reducing sin in our lives and then Jesus saves us' .. we can't do that! Jesus has to save us first, as we are, forgiving sin, giving eternal life.. no works involved. Then we have the ability to do good works, right in God's eyes, because we are no longer of the world.

But .. it is possible for a genuine believer to commit serious sin.

What does being saved mean then?

Being convicted by God thru the Holy Spirit you are a sinner and in need of eternal salvation.

From that, believing Jesus is God who lived sinless, died on the cross to save us from sins, and rose again, and will save you eternally.

No works involved. Unmerited,unfavoured, unearned.

Romans 10, John 3:16, 5:24, 3:36.

Do you believe being born again and being saved are the same thing?

Yes, the same. Nicodemus case though isn't water of baptism but of the womb. Being born physically in the womb.. then again by the Spirit

wasnt this the same as other post.

I have heard that some russians are christians (it was suppressed under communism) and the orthodoxfaith was making a comeback, even if its underground.

I am not sure about Germans. The germans I have met tend to be hippies, I think after collapse of communism in their country they werent very religious or faith minded. Despite Lutheranism and being the first place to mass produce the Bible.

One has to keep believing Jesus and keep trusting in the Atonement Jesus secured on the cross to be saved....

Yes a Christian in a moment of anger a moment of weakness can murder another person.. But being a Christian they will acknowledge their deed was against the Law of Jesus and they will be forgiven their sin..

But if a person kills someone and is justifying their act then they do not believe Jesus...

it most definitely is a Condition and that's why you are argue against it like you do.

you must be the Sheep He was talking about in order to Hear His Voice.

FreeGrace2 said:
Amen! That is what believing is.
Nope. If you are fluent in the English language, you will KNOW that v.27 is NOT a condition for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to not perish.
v.27 is a description of WHAT believers DO, or OUGHT TO DO. It is NOT a condition to be fulfilled in order to never perish.
OK, if you are so fluent in English, then prove YOUR claim that v.27 IS a condition for receiving eternal life.

iow, show me the actual WORDS that form a condition that is linked to v.28.

Of course. But that isn't a condition for never perishing.

Those with normal English skills can see EASILY that v.28 is a simple cause and effect statement rather than a "conditional clause leading to never perishing" as you presume.

The cause of "never perishing" is being a recipient of eternal life.

So, when Jesus gives the gift of eternal life to a person, that person "shall never perish". Clear as crystal.

However, I am interested in how good your English skills really are in proving v.27 is a condition for never perishing.

the condition surrounds either being the Sheep Jesus speaks about or not being them. only ONE of them have Eternal Life!

This doesn't defend your claim at all. You claimed that v.27 is a condition for v.28 and "never perishing". So prove it with proper English by pointing out the words that create a condition for never perishing.

But I'll beat you to it. The condition for never perishing is to be a recipient of eternal life.

Now, the only question is WHEN does a person receive the gift of eternal life? Do you know? That would be the only way to support your view is by showing the gift is received at the end of one's life.

Your turn.