Church Doctrine VS. God's Word

I don't know that anyone who remains under the Curse of the Lord is intentionally trying to change the Word of God. They're Cursed by the Lord and are unable to Understand. Therefore, we should forgive them, for they know not of what they do.

Baptism signifies our death burial and resurrection with Christ it does not impart the reality.

listen you are so far wrong and don't even know it, you ought to worry about that.

Anything that detracts from the Person of Jesus Christ and Him crucified as the only salvation for mankind is the beginning of backsliding.

Anything you can physically do that you suppose adds to your righteousness. Anyone can come forward at a meeting and claim to be saved, anyone can submit to water baptism and defy anyone to deny them as church members as good as anyone else ... even though no work of grace has taken place in their hearts. Why do you think the church is so messed up?

But when the work is done in the heart by the Holy Spirit that is the salvation that counts. Everything else is important but not vital.

Simon Magus was baptised.

They were not commanded, Peter said seeing that they were saved and baptised in the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues "who can forbid them water?"

God was demonstrating that salvation for the Gentiles was not at all dependant upon baptism.

Paul did not baptise ... if baptism was necessary to salvation he certainly would have.

Baptism when it is turned into a sacrament, something vital to salvation, can be a means of gaining power in the church by a clergy class claiming that they only are permitted to perform sacraments.

That is how the Catholics usurped the church.

You realize I suppose Martin Luther was not baptized

Scripture does reveal that Simon Magus did get baptized in water; but, it is silent regarding whether he eventually received the Holy Ghost. I believe he did. Why? According to Peter those who accept the truth concerning Jesus, repent and are water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. It is a promise. The experience of receiving the Holy Ghost and being water baptized happen in different sequence as confirmed in scripture.

Both water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin, and receiving the Holy Ghost bring about one's spiritual rebirth. (John 3:3-5)

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Rom 6:3

Please see the following scripture referencing the command:

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:47-48

Also, play close attention to what Peter said while explaining his actions to Jewish leaders. He said, who was I to withstand God AFTER seeing God fill the Gentiles with the Holy Spirit. His statement indicates that to refuse to command water baptism would have gone against God wishes to grant them repentance until life. (Acts 11:17-18)

Please see scriptures noting Paul did water baptize people:

Over 20 years after Peter gave the initial message of the need to be baptized at Pentecost, Paul gave the same instruction as seen in Acts 19:1-6.

Acts 16:28-33 Jailer and his family.

Acts 16:13-15 Lydia and her family,

Acts 18:8 Crispus; Paul baptized this leader of the synagogue/Someone else baptized members of Crispus’ household and other Corinthian believers.

Paul baptized Gaius as referenced in Acts 19:29. (May have been at the same time Paul baptized Crispus)

I agree the Roman Catholic Church distorted God ordained principles concerning water baptism in numerous ways. One of the biggest distortions of the RCC was the removal of the name of the Lord Jesus. And sadly protestant denominations fell in step after years of persecution, and are now referred to as daughter churches because of their adherence to the deception. It is unfortunate that because they teach the truth concerning sins being remitted in obedience to water baptism it is not accepted by the majority. And this even in the light of the truth as revealed in scripture. (Mark 1:1-5, John 3:5, Acts 2:38; 22:16, etc.)

Baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. And if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

This is why the blood of the Lord was shed. He said that this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. And he commanded that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And that is what the apostles did. They preached, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, save yourselves from this untoward generation.

those are deep waters brother I do note things like this

“every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭

and like this



“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then this it seems some are being saved after they have paid some dues in death and some never died so I see this
“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I personally don’t believe this group is among the dead

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But they are those given eternal life so when they part the flesh they just enter the kingdom alive apart from thier body

then others who didn’t repent of thier works didn’t stand the rest of fire those who didn’t really serve satans Will but also never really finished the race they believed but they also did this part

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See if we accept his word is life if we do t it’s certain judgement based upon it for
Instance a practical example of we go to face Jesus having rejected this

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭

then thats going to be how are judgement is but it’s like that with all he says as we learn it we become able to bear it and also are held accountable me for it as we learn our judgement is before us in the gospel believing I’ll save us rejecting Will condemn us but all Who truly believe in Jesus Christ his death and resurrection will Be saved

though some have not reward but are saved as by fire thoer works and rewards are burned up but they themselves are saved to keep his word of faith

I believe brother that he’ll is t the end those in hell will
Be raised up and judged by trier deeds according to his word in the gospel some of those will
Be saved as a concession even though they didn’t finish the works the y receive many blows and did suffer nearly to the end but faith saves them too

this is only My own opinion not doctrine or teaching just my opinion only

some Christian’s will enter the kingdom at the moment they leave thier body others have to wait until the last day and some will Even be in hell until then but they will Be saved

but yes also what your saying could be but mostly I believe job and his lessons when bad things happen to believers on ewrth it’s not because we sinned it’s because God is refining us to keep us from the sorrows after this life

yes brother what I’m saying is this

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can’t possibly believe baptism is for remission of sins unless we hear about it and believe the action comes from that principle of hearing faith

regarding baptism it works like a witness Tim our own conscience declaring “ I have done the thing God said will remit my sins “ we have to hear that first then it’s faith

“which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:20-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the flood was a figure of baptism by water Noah heard e flood was coming d was instructed what to do and he hears and believes and so his actions responded in faith

that’s how baptism operates we hear it and then respond like this

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my point is sort of the only reason any Christian won’t get baptized is because they hear “
Baptism no longer applies , it’s not for you it doesn’t mean anything it’s a ritual ect” instead of hearing faith like those3000 men that asked “ what do we do now ?” And heard “ repent and get baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins and you’ll receive the Holy Ghost”

That statement has to be declared and received of it is then you have the operation of faith at person if they hears that and believed would say “ I don’t want to get baptized it doesn’t mean anything “?

what I’m saying is we have to hear something first and indersrsnd it then we have faith that’s going to move us at that point is why Paul always said things like “ not I but Christ in me “ because it’s not our Will but the will of Gods word of faith we hear that’s going to make us take steps of faith a

hearing it first is required then we can obey , if we don’t hear it It’s like a kid who never heard the rule Godnis t going to punish them as if they did

what we know is what judges what we do

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭

if I know baptism is for remission of sins and know Jesus commanded it and then don’t do it I’m sinning I’m rejecting his word of salvstion

if I’ve been taught “baptism isn’t needed it’s just irrelevant ritual “ and don’t get baptized I’m not sinning because thy faith is t there to violate Within my conscience it’s the same with many things God is a good father he only expects us to keep up with what we understand is expected of us

Neighbour, ignoring the rest of the doctrines of devils mentioned in your post, why do you take a portion of an epistle that is written to Christians; and then, with no fear of God, apply it to sinners, insisting that it is how sinners are delivered from the power of darkness?

The epistle to the Romans is not written to the ungodly and the children of disobedience. It is written to the called of Jesus Christ: to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints. In Romans 10, Paul, according to the wisdom given unto him hath written concerning the difference between the righteousness which is of the law, and the righteousness which is of faith.

Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, that the man which doeth those things shall live by them. As it is written, this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, say not in thine heart, who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above or, who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

This is what a christian must do to be saved. He must confess with his mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in his heart that God hath raised him from the dead. As the Lord of glory said to his disciples, whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

But why must a christian confess with his mouth the Lord Jesus? Why must he confess him before men? Well, how then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? and how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, how beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Therefore, obey the gospel and be saved! For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How do you call upon the name of the Lord? Thus: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, save yourselves from this untoward generation.

And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

amen if a Christian hears that it starts to give baptism its meaning in faith and value to thy e believer who is meant to embrace the faith being offered and let it change our minds

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

( Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ( submersion )

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ( lifted up from the water anew in conscience )

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,

we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-

Paul’s words there is why we can understand other things like this

“But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.”

‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:14‬ ‭KJV‬

knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Then our faith

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism is a witness of this and is part of what makes this happen

“that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; ( the sinner was crucified and buried in baptism )

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”( raised to a new life through belief in the resurrection also through baptism )
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭

that understanding of baptism is why he talks so much about death and resurrection in his epistles and how chrirtians are called to crucify the flesh through the spirit and faith it’s o my part of the understanding that changes us but we need to accept what it says it means

“ I died with Christ because of sin he took that for me and I’m given a new beginning a new birth in him guided by his mercy patience and forebearance toward me his quickening of me and love for me and the resurrection proves Gods power toward his children even death cannot bond them

if we let concepts explained in the Bible become our belief and opinions is becomes faith and is able to really cha be our thinking about matters of eternal
Life sin and repentance , remission Of sins , not imputing sins against man , mercy and truth working together , all of the concepts are just another Brick to faith

believing we does we’re buried and rose in Christ by faith through baptism and this process remits our sins is an important t brick to let be part of the foundation

When we take all of the Bible into consideration it seems that overall God is loving and merciful and benevolent. Definitely not malicious or capricious as people who think that nature is representative of God. Unfortunately a lot of native Americans are reverting to nature worship. At least if First Nation Network is representative of these peoples and accurate. I don't see it much any more here in Chicago. News here has car crashes almost everyday where vehicles are wrecked really bad. Like crumpled aluminum cans.

It is the blood of Christ that purges our conscience which was shed for the remission of our sins when we submit to baptism we testify to the world that these things have happened to us. But it does not add or subtract anything to what God has done.

I was saved 6 weeks before I was baptised, a joyous occasion but I wasn't more saved after baptism.

Folks must understand that the Jerusalem apostles had a different mindset to Paul who was appointed by God as apostle to the Gentiles. This came to a head at Antioch when Paul withstood Peter to his face. The issue there was circumcision and obeying Moses.

Paul prevailed. For Paul the issue was crystal clear. We are saved without ANY works of righteousness.

Apart from these he baptised nobody. He was not sent to baptise.

Child of disobedience, why are you dishonest? Why do you wrest my Father’s words? They are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. I said that the Lord’s blood (which you reject) is shed for many for the remission of sins. But you did not hear. For he that is of God heareth God’s words: thou therefore hear them not, because thou art not of God. You chose to rebel against my Father’s words. O vain man, rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for they are all one in Christ Jesus.

Because Christ is their peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between Jews and Gentiles; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby.

Wilt thou know, o vain man, that a lying tongue is an abomination unto the LORD?

It is written, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

Evmur, all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Woe unto thee! How shalt thou escape the damnation of hell?