Should Christians Follow Scripture Alone or Scripture and Traditions?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,274
3,606
113
#41
In the 60s or 70s we had a group who set out to change the traditions based on a new interpretation of scripture, they cause a huge division and ended up being excommunicated and split off. They are now the ELCA and ordain lesbian pastors and are social justice warriors for the homosexual movement.
Well, if they did that, clearly they didn't get it from the Holy Spirit . . . or the scriptures.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
#42
Like I said, it's not something I want to spend all day debating. I was just interested in your viewpoint.
I have read a lot of your posts and I think we agree on many things. Especially doctrinally. (I agree with you about Calvary Chapel, ) I also agree that many churches have traditions that at best distract from the doctrine and even often lead folks away from the doctrine. So I get it.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
779
113
#43
Firstly, I am not questioning the infallibility of God's word in the Bible. I believe all that the Bible says and teaches.

But, for sure, I am questioning the man made tradition of 'Sola Scriptura', the Bible alone as the source of God's truth. In fact, the Bible itself tells us that Jesus Church is another source of God's truth!

According to the apostle Paul, in 1 Timothy 3:15, the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth. The Church is the very foundation upon which the Truth rests. Like a hardwood pedestal holding up the family Bible, the Church stands throughout the centuries, bearing up and displaying the pure Truth of God, for all the world to see.

Jesus promised to send The Holy Spirit to His Church to lead it to all truth, Jesus, Himself, promised His early Church/Disciples that He would be with them until the end of time, and that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church.

For any that believe that the Bible is the only source of God's truth, reread 1 Timothy 3: "The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth." You can try and twist that around any way you want, try translating it into Greek, or tell us what Paul really meant, or you can just ignore Bible verses that don't agree with Sola Scriptura. But the reading is straightforward and it is obvious that Paul is not a Sola Scriptura adherent.

And Sola Scriptura is not biblical, just a man made tradition from the 1500s. That's right! 'Scripture Only' does not come from God and it, in and of itself, is a man made tradition.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
#44
Well, if they did that, clearly they didn't get it from the Holy Spirit.
They didnt do it in one big jump. They did it by eroding away the traditions of the Church. And thats what they became and are now.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,274
3,606
113
#45
And Sola Scriptura is not biblical, just a man made tradition from the 1500s. That's right! 'Scripture Only' does not come from God and it, in and of itself, is a man made tradition.
As I asked before: Who started it? You keep saying it's a human tradition from the 1500s, but I've never heard of that and I'm sure it would be news to a lot of people. If you want to be taken seriously, and if you really want to educate people, share the source so we can all learn. Thanks.

I must be on ignore.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
#46
As I asked before: Who started it? You keep saying it's a human tradition from the 1500s, but I've never heard of that and I'm sure it would be news to a lot of people. If you want to be taken seriously, and if you really want to educate people, share the source so we can all learn. Thanks.

I must be on ignore.
"Sola Scriptura" was coined by Martin Luther, in the year 1520 as part of his thesis "An Assertion of All of the Articles." Which was written as a response to Cardinal Cajetan, who defended Primacy of the Pope.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,013
4,314
113
#47
The authority for the Christian is the word of God. Yet the word of God tells us there are things given to the body of Christ for our betterment.

EPH 4 AND 1COR CHAPTER 12

Says that Gifts are given to the church for the perfecting of the saints:

Prophets, apostles, evangelists, Pastors/teachers.

In addition, we are to be people who study the word of God and people of prayer.

Traditions can be praiseworthy and yet not written in the word of God. Those traditions can never replace the word of God or Christ as the only means of salvation.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,274
3,606
113
#49
"Sola Scriptura" was coined by Martin Luther, in the year 1520 as part of his thesis "An Assertion of All of the Articles." Which was written as a response to Cardinal Cajetan, who defended Primacy of the Pope.
Ahh, okay, thanks.

Jesus believed in sola scriptura, that's good enough for me.

"Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. And you do so in many such matters." Mark 7:13
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,013
4,314
113
#50
Did Jesus believe in sola Scriptura? LOL. FYI HE was the word of GOD and is the Word of God.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
779
113
#51
As I asked before: Who started it? You keep saying it's a human tradition from the 1500s, but I've never heard of that and I'm sure it would be news to a lot of people. If you want to be taken seriously, and if you really want to educate people, share the source so we can all learn. Thanks.

I must be on ignore.

Sorry, didn't mean to ignore you. It was Martin Luther who first established the doctrine of 'Sola Scriptura'. This doctrine says that all of God's truth is contained within Scripture and that Scripture is all we need to live Christian lives. However, this doctrine is not in the Bible. Hopefully that answered your question. My apologies.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,274
3,606
113
#52
Sorry, didn't mean to ignore you. It was Martin Luther who first established the doctrine of 'Sola Scriptura'. This doctrine says that all of God's truth is contained within Scripture and that Scripture is all we need to live Christian lives. However, this doctrine is not in the Bible. Hopefully that answered your question. My apologies.
It depends on what you mean by doctrine. Do the words sola scriptura appear in the New Testament? No, but that doesn't mean the teaching isn't there.

Any child can see Jesus taught sola scriptura in relation to the Old Testament. It's only when egghead theologians get involved that the waters get murky.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,799
1,599
113
#54
Jesus was sent by the Father. A the Perfect Son, He abandoned His own will and only did what He saw His Father doing:

"Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel."

Jesus, prior to His ascension, said this to the disciples:

"So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

With this deposit, the disciples could live like Jesus: only doing what they saw to do in the Spirit. They could then see what the Lord was doing: Jesus Christ earned the right to be the standard of the Father. As such, He was given all authority in heaven and on earth. So, what the Father was doing the Lord was doing. There was no dichotomy or schism.

"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen."

So now, as disciples with the Holy Spirit, we may give up or own will to do only what we see the Son doing. We do this by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning."

For example, this was the way Paul and company knew they could not go to Asia or Bithynia. It was not written in scripture that they could not go, it was the Spirit who prevented them.

"Now when they had gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia. After they had come to Mysia, they tried to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit did not permit them."
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
779
113
#55
It depends on what you mean by doctrine. Do the words sola scriptura appear in the New Testament? No, but that doesn't mean the teaching isn't there.

Any child can see Jesus taught sola scriptura in relation to the Old Testament. It's only when egghead theologians get involved that the waters get murky.
Neither Jesus nor Paul believed in Scripture alone for the only source of God's truth. In fact, Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to His early disciples/church and that the Spirit would lead them to truth. Paul clearly states that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

How could Jesus believe in truth through Scripture Alone? Jesus Himself was the truth. Jesus chastised the Pharisees for searching the Scripture, "You search* the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life." Jesus certainly was not a proponent of Scripture Alone!!!!!!!

When Jesus ascended, He didn't write a book he left the church he founded to pass on God's truth. Furthermore, there was no recognized Bible for 300 years after Jesus ascended.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,946
29,307
113
#56
Neither Jesus nor Paul believed in Scripture alone for the only source of God's truth. In fact, Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to His early disciples/church and that the Spirit would lead them to truth. Paul clearly states that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

How could Jesus believe in truth through Scripture Alone? Jesus Himself was the truth. Jesus chastised the Pharisees for searching the Scripture, "You search* the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life." Jesus certainly was not a proponent of Scripture Alone!!!!!!!
Sola scriptura is the rejection of the self-appointed authority of the Roman Catholic
pope/church and confidence in their traditions, false doctrines, and heretical dogmas.


It is not a rejection of the Holy Spirit of God as a source of guidance :rolleyes:

Jesus chastised the Pharisees not for searching the Scriptures,
but for their rejection of Him of Whom Scripture testified.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,274
3,606
113
#57
Neither Jesus nor Paul believed in Scripture alone for the only source of God's truth. In fact, Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to His early disciples/church and that the Spirit would lead them to truth. Paul clearly states that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

How could Jesus believe in truth through Scripture Alone? Jesus Himself was the truth. Jesus chastised the Pharisees for searching the Scripture, "You search the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life." Jesus certainly was not a proponent of Scripture Alone!!!!!!!

When Jesus ascended, He didn't write a book he left the church he founded to pass on God's truth. Furthermore, there was no recognized Bible for 300 years after Jesus ascended.
I agree with some of what you say but disagree on other things. It's not important enough to me to debate.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
779
113
#58
I agree with some of what you say but disagree on other things. It's not important enough to me to debate.
No debate intended sir, just an exchange of opinions on Christian matters. Thanks for your input.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
779
113
#59
Sola scriptura is the rejection of the self-appointed authority of the Roman Catholic
pope/church and confidence in their traditions, false doctrines, and heretical dogmas.


It is not a rejection of the Holy Spirit of God as a source of guidance :rolleyes:

Jesus chastised the Pharisees not for searching the Scriptures,
but for their rejection of Him of Whom Scripture testified.
We come back to the same point. Sola Scriptura is a man made doctrine that teaches that God's truth is revealed only in Scripture. Sola Scripture means 'Scripture Alone' as the authority for Gods truth/word.

Your problem is that nowhere in the bible is Sola Scriptura taught or implied, directly or indirectly. Sola Scriptura means 'Scripture Alone' without traditions. The funny thing is that Sola Scriptura, in itself, is nothing more than a man made tradition. Sola Scriptura is an oxymoron.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,998
5,673
113
#60
What was Paul teaching in 2 Thessalonians 2 when he spoke, "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours."

How does this fit in with Sola Scriptura?
In the letter he’s written then , he’s talking about the epistles of the apostles and what they had preached to them in person scriptire is the only record of those things we have on earth. I’d say it’s a confirmation of “ scripture as a base line foundation “

traditions change with time when you hand them to man , the written word remains the same it’s why it was written and later translated so everyone can hear the truth of his word