Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

No, you are just confused about which judgment belongs to the Church and which belongs to the Nations.

Jesus say

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

That's exactly right, but how do you reconcile that with Matt 25 (the sheep and goats)?

I think you ignore the fact

This what Jesus say

Jesus say

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

What you DON'T believe that Jesus said is that eternal life is possessed when one becomes a believer. John 5:24

You have said eternal life is given at the end of one's life based on their lifestyle. That is blasphemy.

Believer bear the fruit > sheep

Jesus in believer heart make them act like jesus

Let me help...

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:16-18)

You have not answered my question. Can you reconcile Jn 3:16-18 with Matt 25:31-46 or at least show that Matt 25 applies to the Christian.

I did, but you fail to understand

yes on preparation day for "high sabbath" see John 19:31 -- not preparation day for weekly ((low)) sabbath.
the Paschal week has more than one sabbath. one of them is the first sabbath of Unleavened Bread.
and He rose on the 3rd day -- on Firstfruits, the first day of the week, John 20:1, Mark 16:1-2
friday crucifixion with sunday resurrection ((the catholic tradition)) simply doesn't have 3 days and nights between it. some sabbatarians even insist on a friday crucifixion & saturday resurrection!

it's off-topic of course. many threads on the subject in the history of the forum.

That's exactly right, but how do you reconcile that with Matt 25 (the sheep and goats)?

hat Sabbath was a high day. That weekly Sabbath was a high Sabbath, because the first day of Unleavened Bread occurred on that Sabbath day.

The Old Testament does not say the the first day of Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath. Since the first day of Unleavened Bread is not a complete rest day, like the Sabbath day is. You can cook, etc, on the that first day of Unleavened Bread.

The scripture never calls the Feast of Unleavened Bread a Sabbath day and nor should you.

well i am completely aware that there is a line of thinking that "high sabbath" means a regular feast day sabbath happened to fall on a weekly sabbath day.
i am not of that persuasion, as you have surmised, lol. i take 'high sabbath' to refer to a feast day sabbath, rather than a 'normal' sabbath.

insofar as the question of whether the sabbaths of the days of Unleavened Bread are sabbaths, well --

note this phrase: "ye shall do no servile work therein"

here is an article that explains it better than i can ((i would only be paraphrasing the same)) -- but if you look at what is forbidden on the days of Unleavened Bread - mentioned first in Exodus 12, while sabbath is never mentioned until Exodus 16 - they are the same things. ubiquitous Jewish understanding is that the sabbaths of the feasts are equal in 'sabbathness' as the weekly sabbath, the difference being that they are 'feast sabbaths' -- hence their designation as 'high sabbaths' rather than a 'normal' or 'low' sabbath that occurs every seven per month.

http://messyanic.com/2014/06/15/no-work-vs-no-servile-work/


on the one hand i don't want to belabour the point, because i was just butting into the middle of teleperson with yet another one of his false doctrines to explain that the crucifixion wasn't on a friday, but on the other hand i kinda do want to belabor the point because IMO this 98 page thread was solved 50 pages ago or more, and is only kept alive by the same teleperson continuing to spread false teachings that have been debunked many times over in this very thread and many other threads since he 'graced us' with his presence some years ago.
so this is more interesting to talk about; only other hope for this thread is he keeps repeating his nonsense and we keep patiently refuting it, even tho he never listens to anything we try to teach him. i'm at this point where, do i want to keep saying the same things over and over and enduring his slander? or talk about something with someone who actually listens, that is actually getting somewhere?

what should be pointed out as part of this aside, is that 'sabbath' literally means 'seventh' -- same word in Hebrew for a week as it is for the particular day they were commanded to observe each week. so it makes perfect sense that a day marking a part of a yearly feast, upon which they were to ceremonially observe the same restrictions as every 'seventh' would not be referred to as a 'seventh' -- it isn't a seventh, it's a day on which no work should be done, either by you or your servants, except what is necessary. just like the seventh day; equivalent to the seventh ((IOW 'sabbath'))

where we are disagreeing fundamentally tho is what is a 'high sabbath' -- and for that we are going to wind up looking at Talmud, whether we like it or not, because John uses a peculiarly Jewish term for a peculiarly Jewish observation of a peculiarly Jewish commandment in a peculiarly Jewish covenant. IMO our best resources for that are going to be specifically Jewish resources, and then we will be sitting there looking at what primarily unbelieving Jews wrote, wondering how much we can trust their thought processes.

this is a journey worth going on.
continuing to waste our time talking to teleperson, i am not so sure it is worthwhile in any sense.
maybe i am wrong -- i would like to find out

Why pastor say only reward, because he think salvation not by work mean you can do every thing as long as you have faith

Noah informed by God about the coming fload
He believe
He is free to build an arch or sleep all day long than drown to die

Did The fact he believe save him from drown ?

He need to put his faith in to action

So he build an arch

Work is faith in action

That is Jesus talking about in Matt 25

If Noah believe what God tell him why not build an arch

Can you say no because it will mean save by work

Save ny faith, that faith show itself into action

He work to build an arch because his faith

Save by faith alone but faith that saved never alone

Martin Luther

Here is what I see the Gospel as...

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which alswo ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1Co 15:1-4)

This would follow Paul's reason why ALL men need the Gospel (Romans chaps 1-3) and how it saves (Rom 3).
Paul gives warning to those who preach a different Gospel (Gal 1:8-9).

True, I am not a RED LETTER Christian, I leave that for the liberal arm of Christianity, who boast in their good works but fail to give glory to God for His good work.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Rom 5:19)
...and that doesn't mean our obedience.

I left this Board around 2015 and when I came back, it sure has taken a turn for the worse, from free grace to works righteousness. (the worse kind).

And stop when one stop believe

Well brother, at least you were able to see the false teaching.
There are many who are tangled up in this same web, and It's very difficult to open their eyes. I have tried for many years, to show them that they are not, on the narrow path Jesus gave us to follow. We are all blind to this path when we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, which is exactly why we receive this gift. And without teachers, who can guide them to the teachings of the Holy Spirit, they have naturally resigned themselves to one of the many doctrines. This is why I try to get them to follow the Spirit.... who can convince them. We have one on here who accepted the challenge and is now being taught by the Holy Spirit. And now he knows the Truth.
And one is better than nothing.

At least I have made some discoveries along the way. For the life of me, I couldn't understand why people kept throwing Paul at me. It was like Paul was the savior and Jesus was his disciple. Now I understand, it's because they believe Paul is the Author of Salvation...for the Gentiles. And they will be saved by following his teachings, which are not foundational salvation teachings. They are like someone trying to build a foundation by starting on the second floor.

Yep, people think Paul contradict Jesus teaching in Matt 25

Save by faith alone but faith that saved never alone

Matthew 25:37-39
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

When did we see You?

These are not works the righteous (faithful) were aware of.

As God leads the righteous (faithful) to give to the least of His brothers, they give.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Isaiah 26:12
LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.

God works through the believer.

Not the believer works for God.