"If You Want to Have Sex, Get Married." Ok. But What If You Want to Have Sex, and You're ALREADY Married?

Kayla, thank you for posting such an honest, detailed account of your experiences in marriage.

THIS is what we singles really need to hear. We need the REAL real, from people who are married like you, and from people who have been married.

I'm a slow learner. In order to learn something, I need all forms of resources that can be given: written, audio, and visual. I rely heavily on YouTube because it often presents all 3 (I will turn the closed captioning on so that I can read along with, watch, and hear the video.)

My spiritual life is like that too. Having people recite passages to me over and over again isn't helpful to me unless they pair it with living examples -- what they themselves have gone through, and how they've gone through it (hopefully with the understanding that we are all different, but their willingness to share is the key difference.)

I can't learn from people who quote the Bible but don't give me any of their own real-life examples. It's just how I learn.

You are exactly the kind of person I would love to have coffee with and learn from.

Thank you so much for bravely come in here and being willing to tell people like me how it really is.

@seoulsearch

What in my last post surprised (your emoticon) you?

After reading certain comments here, I'm reminded of what I've already known for years:

That I'll never fit in on this planet until Jesus returns.

Maranatha.

If you want to be in a marriage because you want children or just a spouse for companionship or financial security and do not or can not have regular physical intimacy with a spouse several times inside of a week on a regular basis you are committing the worst sort of fraud capable on the planet. Because its a personal sort that is extremely evil. It's FRAUD...its ABUSE...Its personal TORTURE...the sort of thing that God hates worse than simple violence to one of his kids. (And I am not kidding)

You know I have a really close relationship with my mother. And even my father, we always were fairly open, I matured fast, spent a lot of time with adults. I was away from home so much I didn't have time to get serious about a relationship. By the time I did I was well into womanhood, old enough to have kids. So when my mother revealed to me that she and my father had once "slipped" if you understand my meaning, I was very hurt and upset with her. I asked her why she didn't feel she could be honest with me, why she felt she had to lie. She said that it was something you didn't talk about, my father had made her promise never to tell my sister and I. I don't know if even today she knows. My mother blurted it out in a heated moment. And it hurt me so much because I had always thought that they were honest with me and saw me as mature.

I just don't think it's right to leave people in the dark. I'm honest about my struggles as much as possible. Sex is pushed all over tv, in schools, in movies, everywhere you look. The church wants to act like Puritans and act like they never have sex, or think about it. A pastors wife once said to me that she mentioned sex when talking with a couple of the women from the church. One lady said " don't, don't talk like that, my pastor does not have sex" She said " I can assure you he does! How do you think our three children got here, by stork?" I understand things should be private, there are things that can be vulgar and you shouldn't joke about, I understand there are limits. On the other hand, there are a whole lot of married couples who have issues with sex and they can't talk to anyone about it, least of all their pastor because talking about sex is so taboo. So they sit and suffer in silence. That was one thing I made sure of BEFORE I married, that my hubby would be willing to seek help with me if we ever had need of it. Married life is both wonderful, and difficult. I believe it was Billy Graham who said " We have never talked about divorce during our marriage, murder maybe, but never divorce."

I think the reasons for withholding sex matter so I don't think making a blanket statement that withholding sex is evil is accurate. If a spouse makes the other spouse feel insecure, I don't think the other spouse should be forced to have sex since having sex would be a humiliating process. For example, if a husband thinks the wife is too fat, ugly or old, I don't think the wife should be forced to have sex. That is not really "lovemaking" or Biblical sex representing the relationship between Christ and church. If sex is being used a tool to manipulate, I believe that is wrong.

I am so sorry about your mother, Kayla.

I have always appreciated what you've shared, especially being an active part of the ministry, because I know it has to be hard.

Goodness. It's terrible that people would think their own married pastors can't just be regular, normal people.

I admit that your post gave me a bit of a crisis as to which emoji to use, because the first part made me tear up, but the last sentence made me lol!

I honestly probably just should have kept my emoji to myself.

I do appreciate the time you took to explain your previous posts. But it was like, you had just talked about how you hadn't seen any real-life proof of believers who actually exist, or people who can look at someone else with genuinely good intentions and not lust...

And here comes @kaylagrl, who was brave enough to wander into this of thread of jaded singles, and talk to us about a beautiful situation in which she was sincerely attracted to her future husband's eyes and smile.

Call me an old softie, but I was kind of basking in that moment. It just gives a bitter old single lady some hope.

And then right after Kayla tells us about this precious moment of love, there comes long diatribe with a warning about avoiding women who are evil seductresses (some would say, with a Jezebel spirit.)

To me, it just totally took away from this precious moment that Kayla was trying to share with us, and it made me sad.

You know that passage when God tells Israel that finding them was like "finding fresh grapes in the desert"? (Hosea 9:10)

I was enjoying the grapes, and boy did they look good. An honest story about a Godly woman speaking about what she started to find attractive in the person God had brought to her. So to me, the next post going on about women with seducing eyes felt like hosing down all those luscious grapes with a truckload of pesticides -- and then setting them on fire.

Now granted, I just got finished reading a Christian book (written by a woman) all about "good women" and "bad women" and what she basically repeated throughout the entire thing was, "DON'T BE A BAD WOMAN!" (Don't ask me what the book was, I was so frustrated by the singular point of view that I threw it away as soon as I finished it.) I feel the same way about this as I do about some who are married, and, unlike our good friend Kayla, always seem to assume singles are on the verge of some horrible wrongdoing.

I always feel like single women are being told, "DON'T TURN INTO ONE OF THOSE HORRIBLE JEZEBELS WE KNOW YOU'RE JUST ITCHING TO BE!!!"

The other reason this affects me is because I actually feel called to those whom others label as Jezebels (whether male or female,) and there is usually at least some kind of background as to why they are the way they are. Not that it's an absolute or an excuse, of course, but I was thinking of one particular woman I talked to years ago.

The first man that raped her as a child (I think she was about 8) was a minister. The second was a police officer. And the next one who attempted to do so was her coach at school.

The first thing I thought after she told me that was, "Who would I have turned into if that happened to me?"

I have always been someone who zigs when most other people zags, so when people talk about the kinds of things we aren't supposed to be, I never feel part of the big rally that seems to say, "LOOK AT THOSE HORRIBLE SINNERS!!" Rather, I automatically find myself wanting to talk to those people that the Christians are trying to warn me against... My own personal approach is that BEFORE I would ever try to minister to them or even say much of anything, I would first spend all my time with them getting to know what might have happened to them that influenced the way they currently are.

For me, I always feel that someone has to know that I care about, and accept who they are as a person long before I can start talking to them about their spirit.

I always feel like an outsider in church circles.

While everyone else is cheering on the mantra of, "THOSE HORRIBLE JEZEBELS! DON'T YOU EVER BECOME ONE!" I'm standing in the back asking God, "Lord, could I please have a chance to talk to them? (Them meaning the Jezebels, because I have no interest in talking to the Christians who are preaching.) I'd really like to ask those people (the "sinners") some questions... I want to know who they are as real people."

Remember brother, not everyone is walking at the same pace as you are. Some are ahead, some are behind. Others are still seeking.

Thanks for your explanation.

I must say that I'd hardly call my short reply to kaylagrl's post a "long diatribe" or "going on".

I merely offered both pros and cons to what she said, and I don't see the harm in that.

Also, I personally didn't say anything about a Jezebel spirit, but I understand how you're making the correlation (even though it doesn't apply to me).

In case you're unaware (I've mentioned this on this forum before), after my divorce, I did date a woman for 2 1/2 years. This woman had been raped by one of her mother's boyfriends when she was 4 years old, and then she was thrown into the foster care system a short time later in which she was regularly abused. She actually turned to a life of prostitution to support herself, and, by her own estimation, she had sexual relations with 1000 men or more.

I can assure you that when I dated her I never accused her of having a Jezebel spirit. Instead, I regularly showed her compassion and sought to minister to her needs.

Just as an FYI.

Anyhow, it's probably best that I vacate this thread.

Have a great night.

Well, when professing "Christians" start insinuating that people who are disabled, for example, are guilty of the worst type of fraud imaginable if they get married or that those who are hindered from "having sex" if their spouse becomes disabled are victims to be pitied, then there's something terribly wrong. God forbid that we saw the disabled people as the real victims.

Quite frankly, most people, including just about every professing "Christian" I've ever crossed paths with, are exceedingly selfish.

Anyhow, I'll not sour anybody else's grapes by quoting scripture.

Have a great night.

Yes, very human, and it takes a lot to learn to be a servant.

Does it really take a lot to be a servant, or is that just a lie that we tell ourselves?

Jesus calls anyone who will be his disciple to deny themselves.

I was married for 17 years, and for about 16 of those years, my ex literally sought to destroy me. I still served her daily because that's what Christians do, and especially those who have made marital vows before the Lord.

When she got paralyzed, who do you think took care of her?

When she had to learn to walk again, whose arm do you think she was holding on to?

I could go on and on, and all of this was after she pressed phony charges against me with the police, had a restraining order placed against me, and sought to permanently take my own children away from me.

When we call Jesus "Lord", it should actually mean something.

Anyhow, I'll see you elsewhere in the forums.

Personally, I don't have a problem with someone being drawn by someone else's eyes in the sense that one's eyes can truly be a window to one's soul.

However, at the same time, the Bible does warn about a man being taken by an evil, strange, or whorish woman's eyes:

Proverbs chapter 6

[20] My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
[21] Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck.
[22] When thou goest, it shall lead thee; when thou sleepest, it shall keep thee; and when thou awakest, it shall talk with thee.
[23] For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
[24] To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.
[25] Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.
[26] For by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread: and the adulteress will hunt for the precious life.

Of course, one's smile can also be an indicator of their personality. However, when one starts demanding perfect teeth and the such, then I think that there's a problem.

Old-fashioned and mannerly are perfectly fine in my book (and in God's book).

I think the reasons for withholding sex matter so I don't think making a blanket statement that withholding sex is evil is accurate. If a spouse makes the other spouse feel insecure, I don't think the other spouse should be forced to have sex since having sex would be a humiliating process. For example, if a husband thinks the wife is too fat, ugly or old, I don't think the wife should be forced to have sex. That is not really "lovemaking" or Biblical sex representing the relationship between Christ and church. If sex is being used a tool to manipulate, I believe that is wrong.

Quite frankly, most people, including just about every professing "Christian" I've ever crossed paths with, are exceedingly selfish. Anyhow, I'll not sour anybody else's grapes by quoting scripture.

Have a great night.

Oh yeah? OH YEAH?! Well... I'm STILL more holy than all the rest of you combined. So there!

John. Live4Him. Y'all don't have to prove anything. And if you did, you'd be sunk... Because there's no benefit at all in trying to prove it on an internet forum.

Although I have to say it is deliciously ironic that a thread with this particular topic turned into a pissing contest. How apropos.