Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

We don't really see baptism described as "born of water" ever (again?) in the scripture. It's mostly described as death of the flesh, and into Jesus'death- death, death, death, and not birth.
Jesus said Spirit begets spirit, not "water and spirit begets spirit".
Unless Jesus was trying to say our resurrected bodies will be "water and spirit" instead of "water and flesh"; which is not impossible... but then he wouldn't be directly referring to water baptism then.
I also really doubt that Nicodemus seriously considered that Jesus meant that he had to be born from the womb again... he wasn't a reincarnationist, or a moron, he was was just being speaking in hyperbole to ask Jesus for clarification.

It is interestin to note that "born again" is actually "born from above". The spirit is definitely "from above" while "water" is not. BUT- even johns baptism was considered to be "from above", so baptism is not ruled out.

If a person is not baptised are they not saved?

I don't get what you are saying.

Ezekielv36:25-27

When did I ever say Jesus Christ was not the Son of God?

As a human baby, Jesus Christ was the physical Son of God; and
at the point of water baptism and Holy Spirit descending on Him, He became Born Again of water and Spirit - the First Born spiritual Son of God of many brethren.

I'm realizing more and more the importance of both water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism in the "born again" process that occurs in every believer AFTER they are SAVED.

Water Baptism is NOT required to be SAVED, however, it is part of the process to be BORN AGAIN of water and Spirit.

Yes! and Jesus was going along with the hyperbole by explaining that nothing was about "again".
Born ONCE of the womb. This is of the flesh. Born ONCE of the Spirit. This is into the Kingdom (which is not of this world).

I'm so sorry @BillG the last thing I'd ever want to do is cause you any confusion.

I'm just at the beginning of realizing that being SAVED and being BORN AGAIN are two different things.

SAVED = Only BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus Christ by faith receive God's Grace as a Gift - the Blood of Jesus Christ takes our sins away and the Body of Jesus Christ imputes the Righteousness of God into us - simply a GIFT - ALL His Works, NOT ours.

BORN AGAIN = Water Baptism and Holy Spirit Baptism - by water and Spirit.

SAVED and BORN AGAIN are two different things.

No one needs to believe anything I'm saying.... I'm not trying to upset the apple cart.... I just finally realize the difference between SAVED and BORN AGAIN.

Hold on a sec here, since I never said you said Jesus was not the Son of God! Please respond to what I said and not
what you have imagined. What I said was in direct relation to what you said. If you need to, go back to the beginning.

Why in the world would Jesus need to be born again of the Spirit? He is One with the Spirit just as He is one with God.

The dove descending on Him was confirming to John Who Jesus was as revealed to him by God.

Plus, Jesus allowed Himself to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness.

Did He fulfill all righteousness, or did He not?

I say He did.

No need to apologise.

So do you believe that you only receive the Holy Spirit as a result of being baptised?0

WOW and we say we are taught of the Holy Spirit

Christ was never not God .

The above kinda has a Mormon ring to it.

I think we do well to hold to those scriptures that say otherwise, and from Christ's own mouth.

If God can be misrepresented at his word, what chance do we have pointing out the truth in his word to those who don't nsist the unbaptized are not really saved?

I feel sorry for those who are in lands where water is scarce.

Jesus was the water of life. Jesus saves. H2O does not.

John 3
There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

24 For John was not yet cast into prison.

25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.

26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

I know it sounds crazy, but if Jesus Christ was NOT born again by water and Spirit, then how was He going to fulfill being the First Born of many brethren?



Yes, Jesus Christ is ONE with God and yes, John the Baptist was told that the one he saw the dove descending on and staying on would be the Lamb of God.

Isn't it interesting that the Holy Spirit as a dove shows up at the Water Baptism of Jesus Christ?

I believe Jesus Christ was being Born Again of water and Spirit at the Jordan River - the First Born of many brethren.

So sorry if all this is confusing, I'm just now processing all of it myself. No one needs to agree with me at all. I'm just pondering out loud on social media....lol!

Please keep in mind that I am NOT saying that Water Baptism is necessary to be SAVED - but, it is necessary to be Born Again - birthed into the Kingdom of God. When we're SAVED we're "conceived" into the Kingdom of God but, we need to be Born Again - "birthed" into the Kingdom of God.

Yes, I agree! Jesus Christ DID fulfill ALL righteousness.

Sweet Magenta, I love you dearly and always appreciate your replies to my posts!

What's the difference here between being conceived into the kingdom and birthed into it?

If one is saved without baptism and is not baptised what is the difference when Jesus calls time between the two?

Seems to me it is like saying your in first class and our are in second class.

God as the Word did come to Earth and took on flesh born of a virgin..... it is possible that God also took on a spiritual birth of water and Spirit and became the First Born of many brethren...

Why is Jesus telling us that we must be Born Again?

Jesus insisted on being baptized.
Matthew 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him,and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

It was after his baptism that Jesus' ministry began.

Remember the thief on the cross that believed in Jesus Christ.... he was in Paradise with Jesus. Believing in Jesus Christ SAVES us, even without the water baptism or Holy Spirit Baptism, we are SAVED and will be with Jesus Christ in Paradise.

However, why stop at being SAVED? Let's go on and get Born Again too, with the water baptism and Holy Spirit Baptism!!!

Remember the household of Cornelius, they all got saved by believing in Jesus Christ as Peter was preaching - they didn't give a confession of faith. They were not water baptized, they just suddenly got the Holy Spirit baptism and started speaking in tongues. Then, Peter had them all water baptized.

Then, there's those disciples/believers that Paul asked if they had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and they only knew of John's water baptism.... Paul lays hands on them and they get filled with the Holy Spirit - and speak in tongues.

Saved AND Born Again can all happen at one encounter or it can happen at different times but, I understand the difference now between them.