The Need For A Church Council

Lately I have spent some time reading some of the post presented at this forum. I have realized that some members here respond with wisdom.

Given the wide array of conflicting doctrines, I believe it is time for a general Church council to be formed. Such a council would have authority and it's decisions would be binding upon all Churches.

Such positions would be non- salaried and no council member would render a decision in consideration for any sum of money.

Can some of you sincere biblical persons present scripture in support of such a council?

No worries.

1. Mary is not a saint in heaven.

2. You do pray to Mary if you are asking her to pray for you.

3. Otherwise, are you holding a séance and speaking to the dead?

4. Where in scripture are we told to pray to a person who has gone on and left this earth?

I appreciate your obvious dedication to God, but I totally disagree with your views on Mary other than what scripture actually says regarding her.

5. Paul declares believers in Christ holy, so Mary is no more holy than the rest of us.

Sister Avery,

I have numbered your points.

1. I disagree with this. Rev 12:1 shows us Mary is Crowned as a Saint in Heaven. If you recall, in Rev 2:10, Jesus Christ Himself said, "Be faithful unto death, and I will give to you the crown of life." (Rev 2:10). In Rev 12:1, He shows us His Mother was faithful to Him (for e.g. at the Foot of His Cross, when He died, when His Apostles, who had seen His Miracles, had all fled away, except St. John), and that He had rewarded Mary openly in Heaven: "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head." (Rev 12:1). Recall also that God said in the Gospel that if you do all your Good Works in Secret, the Heavenly Father will reward you openly in Heaven one day.

2. If you ask your Pastor, "Rev. Pastor, please pray for me and my family", are you praying to him, or are you asking him to pray for you?

3. Respectfully, this is the theology of the Sadducees. That Saints in Heaven are "dead". Even the Pharisees knew better, and most importantly, Jesus Christ refuted them. Recall that they thought Abraham and Moses were "dead". But the Lord showed they were living, by saying God is the God of the Living: "26And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err." (Mark 12:26). This means Abraham was alive, and not dead, at that time.

The same is proven, for e.g. by the fact that Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ at the Transfiguration to the Disciples. They were alive and not dead. Again, when speaking of the Rich Man and Lazarus, Abraham is alive in Heaven, and Lazarus goes to join him.

There are further Biblical Proofs that the Saints in Heaven are alive and not dead (especially in Revelation, where Saint John sees them alive and Singing Songs and Praises to God and the Lamb!) that I can give you subsequently share with you if you wish. Those in Heaven are not "dead", as the Sadducees thought, but are Alive, as the Lord Jesus Christ taught. Even the Pharisees correctly knew this.

4. "8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints." (Rev 5:8)

Thank you. I appreciate your dedication to Our Lord Jesus Christ too. God Bless you.

5. As to your final point, if Elizabeth did not consider the Mother of God holier than her, why did she say, "how is this given to me, that the Mother of my Lord should come to visit me?" She considered it a holy privilege to be visited by the Mother of God. "39And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; 40And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. 41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. " (Luk 1:39-44). The Holy Spirit falling at Mother Mary's word to her cousin also shows the Holy Spirit considered the Virgin Mary, whom He overshadowed, to be especially holy.

I do agree that all believers in the Lord are made holy, but not all are equally rewarded in Heaven. Those who labor more for the Lord are rewarded more, e.g. the Lord told His Twelve Apostles they will set on Twelve Thrones and judge the 12 Tribes of Israel (as we read in Mat 19:28). That's a special privilege they received for being Apostles and Evangelists for the Lord. Likewise, the Mother of God received those in Rev 12:1.

God Bless.

A way that may work is, The Holy Spirit intercedes, prays for us in Romans 8 along with Jesus. God can bring someone to the mind of believers, we need only say amen and the Spirit fills in the gaps. We know that angels visit heaven daily from Job. One can make a side trip to speak to our loved ones. To my knowledge those in heaven can not see us on earth, some have used Hebrews 12:1 to say they can see us on earth. These are only unproven opinions.

Quite sorry you took the time to do all that because I am not going to read it. I am not Catholic and I do not agree with the tenants of that religion.

Pray to the Father in Jesus name and forget asking a dead woman to do the job for you.

That scripture points to the fact that all believers are in the body of Christ... it says nothing about any kind of governing body over all believers.... the only one over the church is Christ.