Does the Bible solemnly warn of eternal damnation?

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Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Any teaching which contradicts Bible truth is a lie. So since the Bible DOES NOT teach annihilation but eternal damnation, annihilationists are in fact liars -- deceiving themselves and others.
Weird. My Bible says the wicked will be destroyed. .I do not believe Jesus idly threatened people to fear the One Who can destroy both body and soul. Even the best known and most well loved Scripture attests to the fact that those outside Christ perish. The word used, Strongs #622, is appolumi, which means: to destroy, destroy utterly. You could do a study if you were interested in the Truth, but I can tell you are not. Some say things like, utterly destroy does not mean utterly destroy, and dead means alive forevermore. You are one of those who says asleep means awake and aware, and call anyone who believes the soul sleeps in the first death a liar, too, which would necessarily include Jesus. You obviously do not think things through before you throw your idle words around, which is why you have also said Christ died for nothing if the wicked do not burn forever. That you can treat the faith of others so callously I have witnessed numerous times, but to treat your own faith and knowledge of God with such disregard really takes the cake.

Psalm 37:38
But transgressors will be altogether destroyed;
The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.


Proverbs 14:11
The house of the wicked will be destroyed,
But the tent of the upright will flourish.


Psalm 94:23
He has brought back their wickedness upon them
And will destroy them in their evil;
The Lord our God will destroy them.


Psalm 92:7
That when the wicked sprouted up like grass
And all who did iniquity flourished,
It was only that they might be destroyed forevermore.


Romans 9:22
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power
known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?


Philippians 3:19
whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose
glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.


2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from
the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,


2 Peter 2:3
and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their
judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.


2 Peter 2:12
But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed,
reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,


2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire,
kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.


Jude 1:10
But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which
they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.


 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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Oregon
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Yet you've produced no proof of that. You've been desperate to assassinate
the character of anyone who disagrees with you . . . . This is a typical tactic
of intellectually dishonest people. You can't win with ideas, but you hope
that if you at least make your opponents seem evil then you've
won.

You've well-described a common political strategy here in the USA; for
example:

Second Opinion = Misinformation

Election Integrity = Voter Suppression

Dissenter = Extremist

Patriot = Domestic Terrorist

Anti Hillary = Deplorable

Trump Supporter = Insurrectionist

Mistrusting Fauci = Mistrusting Science

Vaccine Choice = Anti Vax

Anti Dumbed-Down Math = Jim Crow

Anti CRT = Racist

White Man = Toxic Male

Pipelines and Domestic Oil Production = Anti Green

Etc.

Machiavellian politicians are well aware that if you can find a label that
people dread, they can be made tolerant of things that they would
normally oppose.
_
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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You've well-described a common political strategy here in the USA; for
example:


Second Opinion = Misinformation

Election Integrity = Voter Suppression

Dissenter = Extremist

Patriot = Domestic Terrorist

Anti Hillary = Deplorable

Trump Supporter = Insurrectionist

Mistrusting Fauci = Mistrusting Science

Vaccine Choice = Anti Vax

Anti Dumbed-Down Math = Jim Crow

Anti CRT = Racist

White Man = Toxic Male

Pipelines and Domestic Oil Production = Anti Green

Etc.

Machiavellian politicians are well aware that if you can find a label that
people dread, they can be made tolerant of things that they would
normally oppose.
_
Yes exactly. It’s all propaganda designed enslave the hearts of people. The heart is not rational like the mind, only caring for how something feels based on subjective criteria. Most people think that if something feels right then it must be right.

Clever propagandists have found ways to short circuit the decision making process of people, sidestepping reason, and appealing directly feelings by the demonization of a perceived enemy. We see it everywhere in politics and sometimes in this very forum.

We can’t stop this, but we can be aware of these tactics and that’s empowering to resist these schemes.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Yet you've produced no proof of that. You've been desperate to assassinate the character of anyone who disagrees with you for as far as the eye can see looking through your posts. This is a typical tactic of intellectually dishonest people. You can't win with ideas, but you hope that if you at least make your opponents seem evil then you've won.
Not taking sides on this particular matter, but there is certainly far too much of this kind of behaviour on this site. None of us has a corner on the truth, and we are instructed to be gentle with those who disagree, not demonize them.
 

Melach

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Mar 28, 2019
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Hello, Melach. It is nice to see you being active again :) I hope all is well with you...

Some even complain how unfair it is that God will bar them from heaven. Yeah. They should not even think of such things, but they do. Don't expect them to be logical and rational just because they like to think they are more intelligent than theists.
thanks friend. im unemployed now so i got time to type heheh.

you make a good argument, i will stop using this "thats atheist dream" argument its actually bad.
i realize it, its like saying we shouldnt believe Jesus was the messiah because muslims believe Jesus was the jewish messiah. or saying we shouldnt believe in one God cause muslims believe in one God.

good one.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
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its like saying we shouldnt believe Jesus was the messiah because muslims believe Jesus was the jewish messiah. or saying we shouldnt believe in one God cause muslims believe in one God.
Kinda like conservatives not masking or vaxing because the liberals say we should. We're good at cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail...
 

Gardenias

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Oct 27, 2020
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Do you ( meaning any ) study in the light of the Holy Ghost or of yourselves when digging into God's word?

I do think MANY do not divide the word in context but pick and choose what fits their beliefs or agenda.

There are LITERAL and SPIRITUAL TRUTHS in God's word.
It is enlightened by the Spirit who is our teacher to show us in TRUTH what is written!

Do NOT fool yourselves into believing you are walking in the light,letting the Spirit lead us, nor that you are wise and close to God!

GOD does NOT need our help with what he's said,nor of judgment of others.

What he does need us to do is " study and show yourself as a WORKMAN of GOD,who needeth not be ashamed ( no excuse when standing b4 Jesus and saying" will I didn't know) RIGHTLY dividing ( with the Spirit ) the word of God, and sharing HIS TRUTH!
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
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Do you ( meaning any ) study in the light of the Holy Ghost or of yourselves when digging into God's word?

I do think MANY do not divide the word in context but pick and choose what fits their beliefs or agenda.

There are LITERAL and SPIRITUAL TRUTHS in God's word.
It is enlightened by the Spirit who is our teacher to show us in TRUTH what is written!

Do NOT fool yourselves into believing you are walking in the light,letting the Spirit lead us, nor that you are wise and close to God!

GOD does NOT need our help with what he's said,nor of judgment of others.

What he does need us to do is " study and show yourself as a WORKMAN of GOD,who needeth not be ashamed ( no excuse when standing b4 Jesus and saying" will I didn't know) RIGHTLY dividing ( with the Spirit ) the word of God, and sharing HIS TRUTH!
It's funny, we all worship the same God, we all seek the same Holy Spirit, we all read the same Word, yet we come to such differing conclusions.
 

Gardenias

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Oct 27, 2020
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It's funny, we all worship the same God, we all seek the same Holy Spirit, we all read the same Word, yet we come to such differing conclusions.




Do we serve the same God,walk in the same Spirit in the word or just think we Do?
Heresies and false doctrines are NOT serving the God of his HOLY inspired word.
The Alpha and the Omega,the beginning and the end!
 

Gardenias

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Oct 27, 2020
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TWO ......C .....WORDS I AM SEEING MORE AND MORE AMONG PEOPLE

COMPLACENCY AND COMFORTABILITY
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire,
being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.


Galatians 6:8
The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction;
the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.


Philippians 1:28 and 3:18-19 teaches that non-believers will be destroyed.
Nevertheless, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ.
Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will
know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending side by side for the faith of
the gospel, without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you.
This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God.


For as I have often told you before, and now say again even with tears:
Many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction...


2 Thessalonians 2:10
“They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”


Paul said we should do as He did, and how many times in all his books (28% of the NT) did he
preach eternal conscious torment via hellfire damnation? Did he ever even use the word hell?
No, he did not. Paul, who claimed he was caught up into heaven and given the Gospel directly
by Jesus; that all men would be judged according to his gospel; that he had declared to people
the whole counsel of God; that he kept back nothing profitable from the people he taught; and
that he was the apostle to the gentiles... never once used the word hell. Paul uses the Greek word
"Hades" in 1 Corinthians 15:55, where it is translated "grave." (KJV)
O death, where is thy sting?
O grave, where is thy victory?
In Galatians 1:8, he says: But though we, or an angel from heaven,
preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 

BroTan

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Sep 16, 2021
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In the scriptures it's written in Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The 2nd verses in Daniel show both resurrections. Some to shame and everlasting contempt. This is the 2nd resurrection.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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In the scriptures it's written in Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The 2nd verses in Daniel show both resurrections. Some to shame and everlasting contempt. This is the 2nd resurrection.
I don't want to get into eschatology, let's focus on your interpretation of Daniel 12:2, what it says, and what it doesn't say.

Daniel 12:2 KJV
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Do you see that those who awake to shame and everlasting contempt aren't the ones feeling shame and contempt? This isn't a matter of speculation, I am going to lead you to where the correct interpretation of Daniel 12:2 can be found in scripture. It's all the way back in the last verse of Isaiah.

Isaiah 66:24 KJV
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Contempt in Daniel 12:2 and abhorring in Isaiah 66:24 are actually the same word and mean the same thing. You can check this in your Strong's concordance at H1860. For yours and the reader's convenience, I have linked it directly to Bible Hub's online concordance.

As you can see, where Daniel 12:2 does not specify who will be feeling contempt. Isaiah 66:24 does specify who will be feeling contempt. The righteous who live forever will feel contempt because the dead bodies (the carcases) of the wicked will be an abhorrence to them.
 

BroTan

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Sep 16, 2021
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I don't want to get into eschatology, let's focus on your interpretation of Daniel 12:2, what it says, and what it doesn't say.

Daniel 12:2 KJV
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Do you see that those who awake to shame and everlasting contempt aren't the ones feeling shame and contempt? This isn't a matter of speculation, I am going to lead you to where the correct interpretation of Daniel 12:2 can be found in scripture. It's all the way back in the last verse of Isaiah.

Isaiah 66:24 KJV
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Contempt in Daniel 12:2 and abhorring in Isaiah 66:24 are actually the same word and mean the same thing. You can check this in your Strong's concordance at H1860. For yours and the reader's convenience, I have linked it directly to Bible Hub's online concordance.

As you can see, where Daniel 12:2 does not specify who will be feeling contempt. Isaiah 66:24 does specify who will be feeling contempt. The righteous who live forever will feel contempt because the dead bodies (the carcases) of the wicked will be an abhorrence to them.



Daniel says, And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Everlasting life is on the good side of the kingdom, the people that awake to shame and everlasting comtempt are those who will hit the lake of fire, and the feeling of shame will last forever. It's just that simple.

In Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
LAKE OF FIRE, FOREVER AND EVER BURNING FOR ETERNITY WITH WORMS EATING ON THAT BRAND NEW SPIRITUAL BODY THAT WILL NEVER DIE.


Let's go back to Isaiah 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

These verses are beyond us, but not too far. Where is the Lord at this time? In his holy mountain Jerusalem. What will happen when all flesh come up to worship him? They will look upon the carcases of the men that transgressed against Him. Where is the Lake Of Fire?

In Jerusalem. Here is something else. Who are these men that are in the Lake Of Fire? Notice all flesh shall come to worship before the Lord. How can this be? We will find out later. Who are these men that are burning and worms eating on them.

Let's go to Revelation and find out. Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

These two are the men that all flesh looked upon when they came up to worship before the Lord. This happened before the great white throne judgment.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Daniel says, And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Everlasting life is on the good side of the kingdom, the people that awake to shame and everlasting comtempt are those who will hit the lake of fire, and the feeling of shame will last forever. It's just that simple.

In Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
LAKE OF FIRE, FOREVER AND EVER BURNING FOR ETERNITY WITH WORMS EATING ON THAT BRAND NEW SPIRITUAL BODY THAT WILL NEVER DIE.


Let's go back to Isaiah 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

These verses are beyond us, but not too far. Where is the Lord at this time? In his holy mountain Jerusalem. What will happen when all flesh come up to worship him? They will look upon the carcases of the men that transgressed against Him. Where is the Lake Of Fire?

In Jerusalem. Here is something else. Who are these men that are in the Lake Of Fire? Notice all flesh shall come to worship before the Lord. How can this be? We will find out later. Who are these men that are burning and worms eating on them.

Let's go to Revelation and find out. Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

These two are the men that all flesh looked upon when they came up to worship before the Lord. This happened before the great white throne judgment.
Well, you are saying they live forever feeling shame and contempt, while simultaneously saying they die a second time (a second death) in the lake of fire, but they don't really die so by this metric you get to subjectively decide where the Bible is literal and where it is figurative. There are too many contradictions in your theory to take it seriously.

I am showing you a more consistent Biblical interpretation where death and destruction mean death and destruction and only those who have faith in Christ receive immortality. It's just that simple.
 

BroTan

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Sep 16, 2021
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Well, you are saying they live forever feeling shame and contempt, while simultaneously saying they die a second time (a second death) in the lake of fire, but they don't really die so by this metric you get to subjectively decide where the Bible is literal and where it is figurative. There are too many contradictions in your theory to take it seriously.

I am showing you a more consistent Biblical interpretation where death and destruction mean death and destruction and only those who have faith in Christ receive immortality. It's just that simple.

Jesus raise the dead and heal the sick and so forth, but at times Jesus would say that they are sleep. Jesus wouldn't use the word dead in certain cases. You have to pray and get that understanding for yourself and really study the book. It's lots of examples so you don't have to read into these scriptures and verses like you do and cause confusion. Let's find an example for you to understand in I Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Did Christ die in the days of Noah? No! Those spirits were the angels that fell. It is only one that has already been sentenced to death, and that is Satan. Why did he say the spirits in prison? Take a look at this verse.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Is this a prison or not? Not in the sense that we think, with bars. “Chains of darkness” simply means we can not see them. This study have shown you there are 2 types of death, death of the body (physical death), and death of the mind (spiritual death). We also found out that the Word of God is spirit, and if you don't bring you body under control and follow the spirit, which is his word you are walking in the flesh. If you walk in the flesh you are considered an enemy of God.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Our God is a consuming fire
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I'll grant your first point, and I'll grant that your second is valid, though I still don't see any fundamental distinction between that view and the one that isn't concerned about the first death either, and it leaves very little if anything at all from which to be saved. To me the whole thing appears to be going in a circle. The only thing to be saved from is a brief period of unpleasantness between the declaration of judgment and death itself... not so different from earthly death. I don't see enough reason for the sinner to be concerned.
Late reply, I realize. I was going to respond much sooner but... any ways, it is a bit disturbing that you relegate death to a "merely." Scripturally, fear of death is given as the reason for man's bondage to sin. Then we have those who claim death is not punishment. Just exactly where is there head at? Heh, rhetorical question. Meanwhile much energy and resources go into man's search and efforts to prolong, protect, and preserve life. My daughter's grandfather passed away this morning. He had been hospitalized most of the last about ten weeks or so. She had asked him recently if he was afraid. His response was yes.