Does the Bible solemnly warn of eternal damnation?

Apollumi

"Forever"

Are we allowed to post ANY Scripture?

Matthew 23:14 King James Version 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.


Matthew 11:21-22 King James Version (KJV)
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.



How do you get a greater punishment, or be more tolerable, if they are annihilated?

This video turned me off of eternal conscience torment. I suggest all those with an open mind who put FIRST the Word of God to watch it. Should you walk away still believing in eternal torment, so be it. But I doubt you will.

Jesus said we would never die. And yet it is given for all men to die once, and then the judgment.

How one puts Scripture together line by line and precept by precept cannot be left out of the equation.

Nor can we ignore context, or writing style.

Do you know how many people claim they take everything in the Bible literally?

No, I have not counted them either. Just one more ridiculous assertion from those who like to
pretend that if you disagree with them on some issue, you don't believe what the Bible says.

John 11:25-26

I think the Bible makes it clear that we will all face judgement and not all will go to Heaven, but whether the rest suffer in eternal hell or die/destruct is more vague. References to "eternal" hell vs "death" and "destruction" are both frequent in the Bible. There are also some clarity issues because several different words in Greek and Hebrew, which I believe have different meanings, were all translated into "hell". The Jews are experts in the OT and to my understanding they do not believe in hell, so I am not sure if references to hell in the OT really mean hell.

Dear Dino246,
Death is the penalty of sin. Without the work of Christ at the cross, all mankind would remain in the grave. But because of Christ's work at the cross, Christ earned the keys of death and hell (the unseen place) and will resurrect all mankind at some future date.

For those who have fully travelled the pathway to salvation, they will receive "life" in the Kingdom of Heaven immediately. For those who have not travelled the pathway, they will go directly to judgment and will there experience the "second death". The "first death" was experienced by the First Fruits during their judgment which occurred during their lifetimes in this age.

For salvation, Christ requires everyone to pay Him our spiritual death. Christ is our near-kinsman redeemer and He purchased our sin debt at the cross. We legally owe Him our debt of death. But from Christ's spiritual work which He will do within each person, He will cause us to be "born again" from the spiritual death He collects from us. Christ's judgment is what causes our spiritual death. For that reason, the Lake of Fire is said to be the second death.

Because of sin, mankind became children of the Devil. Once that child of the Devil is destroyed, Christ will give us a new birth as a child of God. Christ earned that right to "convert" us by His work at the cross. This conversion is what this verse below teaches:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Christ is the Savior and He will do all the necessary work to save us. Mankind cannot contribute anything, otherwise, we would have something to boast about concerning our salvation. In addition, our "walk" would be mixture of "works" (Devil) and "faith" (Christ) and as Christ said, we cannot serve two masters.

Christ converts mankind by FIRE (death of the marred vessel) and by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (new vessel that seemed good for the potter to make). He does so because of His Grace (free gift) and because it is God's "will" for it to be done.

Mat 3:11-12 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the HOLY SPIRIT, AND WITH FIRE: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Joe

Dear PennEd,
All mankind is judged by fire. The Elect of this age receive an easier judgment because they are converted prior to their judgment.

Christ's judgment is for the destruction of our marred spiritual condition we have from birth. That condition is what produces our carnal nature. Christ came in a perfect spiritual condition and for that reason, He never developed a carnal nature.

For those who die in their sins, they will be resurrected to judgment prior to their conversion and that judgment will be very harsh but in the end, they too, will be saved by fire.

You should read my last post just above. It will explain in better detail of what I just stated.
Joe

Welp. There ya have it folks.

This individual believes every human will eventually be saved. Effectively nullifying Jesus Sacrificial death to pay for your sin, as this person believes with enough fire and time, everyone will be in heaven.

I chuckle whenever I see this passage quoted. Almost always, the context is ignored, as it is in this case.

Here's verse 13:

"And the word of the LORD will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little, that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

Is that what you advocate? If so, I'd encourage you to think again.

No, truth is found in the sum, not in the construction of the sum. We are unwise to think that we have the whole truth when we have only learned parts of it. The house is uninhabitable until it is finished.

Check your chronology. Have the unrighteous dead been judged by that point in Revelation? No. Build the whole house first.

yes sir please post absolutely any scripture.

Matthew

Click to expand...

Damnation just means judgement to condemnation. They’ll be judged more strictly and receive a harsher judgment because the scribes and Pharisees were spiritual leaders in their day. It’s kind of like teachers will be judged more strictly because they are guiding the souls of others. It’s possible for a teacher to lead well-meaning people straight to hell and if they do that they’ll be judged more strict.

James 3:1 KJV
1My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Again this is just about judgment. Doesn’t say anything about what the punishment actually is. Nothing about burning forever in conscious torment.



None of the scriptures you quoted were about punishment. They were about damnation and condemnation which means judgement.

Oh my. No. No, no, no.

What I'm getting at is that without there being something unpleasant and substantial from which to be saved, "salvation" is meaningless. If those who are unrighteous will never actually undergo consequences for their choice, how can it be described as unpleasant and worth avoiding? I simply don't see any logic in that view.

To put it another way, I think that the view that there is no afterlife at all (functional atheism) is essentially the same as annihilationism. The result is the same: no (belief in an) awareness of consequence, so nothing from which to be saved.

Dear PennEd,
Jesus' death on the cross earned Jesus the right to save all mankind. He does so by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and by judgment. Our salvation is 100% His work, lest anyone man should boast.

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Why do you believe Christ is going to fail? Does our salvation requires our own "works" or is it the free gift of God? Or maybe mankind's "will" is just to much for Christ to overcome?

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Joe

So, you are speaking of Purgatory rather than Hell?

See my post to Magenta above.

I don’t think God ‘sends’ anyone to 'hell' or eternal damnation. Look at it this way. Suppose I built a resort for the homeless, and all I asked was that on their way in the door they acknowledge and thank me for doing so. “Hey man, I really appreciate you doing this” and you’re in the door. Tell me to kiss off, and you can go sit outside on the curb. Am I really responsible for those who choose to sit outside on the curb?

Too, what is hell? Our universe is made up at the subatomic level with clusters of like charged particles, which science tells us should naturally repel each other. They call the unknown factor that keeps it all from exploding "the strong force". There are several theories as to the source of this ‘strong force’, including God’s claim that He holds it all together. Now, on that theory, God claims He spoke it all into being out of nothingness - while science says out of nothingness, kaboom there it is. Are those really 2 different stories?

And then there’s dark matter/energy. Scientific estimates vary, but they hover around the theory that 90% of what makes up the universe, we can’t see, except for how it affects the things we can see. God says there is another realm that we can’t see, other than how it affects what we can see. And He wants His 10% back. Again, are these really unrelated?

God also says that someday He will speak this universe out of existence. Paul describes that moment, saying the elements will melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12). Think of what results when the atom is split – intense heat and fire.

Now, the interesting thing is, that we don’t see the lake of fire (hell) appear until right after this present earth and heavens are de-created.

Could it be that the de-creation of our universe creates the lake of fire?

Could it be that for those who loved this world more than Him, God lets them have it in its natural state apart from Him?

Dear Dino246,
You said:
"And the word of the LORD will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little, that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

Is that what you advocate? If so, I'd encourage you to think again.

Yes, the Word of God is presented so that mankind cannot understand the truth. For that reason, Christ teaches His truth in "another tongue" (spiritual language) with "here a little, there a little". The only ones who are given the ability to understand (eyes that can see) are Christ's Elect and they can only understand AFTER they are converted. The pathway to salvation starts with the Early Rain but because Christ does not heal the new believer's spiritual blindness at that time, they cannot understand the truth of scripture. Because they cannot understand, Satan immediately comes to them and deceives them. They add "works" to "faith" and fall away and are broken (lose their salvation). Approaching Christ by "works" is the sin that leads to death. Christ explains this truth in many of His teachings. Here is one of them:

Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation

Unclean (evil) spirits represent Satan's false truth. Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with God's truth. One "evil spirit" leaves but comes back with seven more (represents the spirit of anti-Christ) since our house remains void of God's truth. Now, instead of "one evil spirit" within us, we now have EIGHT. The number EIGHT spiritually represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, our new spiritual condition is "worse than the first". Paul calls this worsened spiritual condition the Man of Sin.

After the new believer devolves into a Man of Sin, their deadly head wound that came from the sword of Christ at the time of the Early Rain is healed. The blow by the Sword of Christ was intended to slay their carnal nature (Old man) but because of their spiritual blindness and Satan’s deceptions, the wound is healed and their Old Man continues to live.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

As a result, they are still represented by the Seven-Headed Beast of Revelation. In case you are unaware, the Seven Headed Beast is a symbol for mankind in our spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition. After our deadly head wound is healed, we have truly "fallen away" and become a Man of Sin who follows the ways of Satan instead of Christ. We are trying to serve two masters. This is the one and only sin (works) that leads to our spiritual death (1John 5:16). From this death, we cannot be renewed by repentance (Heb 6:4-6). It is for this reason that Christ must come to us a second time if we are going to be saved in this age. When He comes (Day of the Lord), Christ brings the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Holy Spirit), which is what the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost and what Paul received after being in Damascus for three days.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the most common belief that causes us to "fall away". We use this false belief system to justify why unbelievers are worthy of "hell" and why we are not. We falsely believe that we must be wiser or smarter or simply less evil than those who reject Christ. And because of this belief, we take credit for making the right "choice" to accept Christ. But in truth, the credit is not ours. It was Christ's work within us that caused us to accept Him as "Lord". In our spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition we have from birth, no man will even seek to know God (Rom 3:10-11, Rom 8:7), much less accept Him as Lord.

Scripture clearly says that unless Christ gives us the Holy Spirit, we cannot call Him “Lord”.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Only after Christ comes to us and gives us the Early Rain of the Spirit can we call Christ “Lord”. Paul’s Damascus Road experience is the part of the “pattern” (1Tim 1:16) whereby we all must follow in order to be “called out from the world”. Christ came to Paul on the Damascus Road, uninvited by Paul, and gave Paul the Early Rain. Paul had no choice in the matter as to whether to accept the Spirit or to reject the Spirit. The Spirit was given to Him and after it was, Paul fell to his knees and called Christ “Lord”.

After a Called Out believer has “fallen away” and is no longer saved, Christ must come to them a second time with the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Holy Spirit). If He doesn't, they will die in their sins and receive their “portion” with the unbelievers. If the Called Out believer is one of the “few” (Mat 22:14) and has been "chosen from the foundation of the world", Christ will come to them a second time. And when He comes, He brings salvation with Him.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Christ “appeared” the first time in the flesh and took away the sins of the world on the cross. When He comes to an unbeliever with the Early Rain, He does not “appear” to them but remains hidden from their understanding. The Early Rain event is not an “appearance”, it is a visitation. When Christ comes to a Called Out believer with the Latter Rain, He “appears” to them at this time. When He comes, He fully heals their spiritual blindness and the Light of His appearing will destroy the Man of Sin whom they have become. It is at this point when the new child of God is born.

Joe

No. What you said makes no sense.

What does it matter if you fail with a 64, or a five? You both get an F!! But Jesus says the person that failed with a 5, is going to be treated differently and worse than the guy that failed with a 64, ALTHOUGH BOTH FAILED.

The Pharisees get punished more severely, as does the inhabitants of the cities that rejected Him.

If the sodomites are punished the exact same as the men of Chorizon, by both being annihilated, then Jesus lied.

As for the Pharisees, Jesus says where they, and their converts are going. Note STRONGS definition of Gehenna (Hell).

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.


G1067 γέεννα - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number

Previous Strong's #G1066 Next Strong's #G1068

LSJ Gloss:γέενναge-hinnomDodson:γέενναGehennaGehenna, and originally the name of a valley or cavity near Jerusalem, a place underneath the earth, a place of punishment for evil.Strong's:

It is more complicated than that. An equivalent comparison is if you ask the homeless to acknowledge you are God, or lets just say a prophet. A lot will walk away due to various reasons. They don't have issues with the resort (or Heaven) but who you are. Based on your example, since they don't have to acknowledge you are a divine being, I believe most of the homeless will enter the resort unless they are not mentally there.