when will the most evil doctrin in the world get banned on this site.

Paul's theology is substantiated by the fact that God blinded someone from birth and then healed him so that the glory of God could be made manifest. This isn't Paul's random philosophizing.

Remember this passage?

John 9:1-3 KJV
1And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

if you would do that, you would drop your silly " keep the Sabbath to be right with God" non-sense.

No one is pitting one against the other. You could learn something from Milton also.

"Enduring to the end" in order to be saved is not a reference to eternal life. It is to do with the salvation of the soul. Many will be like the sinner in Corinth. He was going to heaven. His sin did not rob him of eternal life. It did rob him of fellowship with the church. He lost his peace and joy. He was out of God's will for all the time he remained in sin and that is punishment in itself. He repented and was restored. At no time was he going to hell, in spite of his condition. Those who refuse to give up their own ways suffer much loss and are useless in God's kingdom. Those who consecrate themselves to God will suffer much in this life, but also be greatly rewarded in this and the next life. Eternal life is eternal. The new, born again spirit is born of God. What can kill something born (not created) of God? Will God kill what is His own?

The natural life in the soul is created by God, so was man's spirit in the beginning. When Adam rebelled, he died spiritually. The natural life was only intended to be temporary. It permitted Adam to exist as a human until such time as he made a decision, literally a life or death choice. We know the awful choice Adam made.

God's intent is that we should lose
Not according to the Bible. In the book of revelation, he is the "Serpent of Old". Satan means adversary. And that is is Satan's nature. He is not an idea. Ideas do not roam around like a roaring Lion to devour the unwary. Satan was not always God's adversary, but he made himself to be that.(1 Peter 5:8) And Satan is specifically called the devil twice in the book of Revelation.

If you do not believe the Bible to be God's word, then you can come up with any theory you life. Don't be surprised if Christians disagree with you.

"Enduring to the end" in order to be saved is not a reference to eternal life. It is to do with the salvation of the soul. Many will be like the sinner in Corinth. He was going to heaven. His sin did not rob him of eternal life. It did rob him of fellowship with the church. He lost his peace and joy. He was out of God's will for all the time he remained in sin and that is punishment in itself. He repented and was restored. At no time was he going to hell, in spite of his condition. Those who refuse to give up their own ways suffer much loss and are useless in God's kingdom. Those who consecrate themselves to God will suffer much in this life, but also be greatly rewarded in this and the next life. Eternal life is eternal. The new, born again spirit is born of God. What can kill something born (not created) of God? Will God kill what is His own?

The natural life in the soul is created by God, so was man's spirit in the beginning. When Adam rebelled, he died spiritually. The natural life was only intended to be temporary. It permitted Adam to exist as a human until such time as he made a decision, literally a life or death choice. We know the awful choice Adam made.

God's intent is that we should lose the self life and replace it with His life. This is a process that continues for as long as we are in this mortal body.

I went to Dispensational churches with Armenian theology the first 15 years I was saved. The whole idea that you could lose your salvation, creeped me out. I know someone that still is not sure he is saved 45 years after becoming a Christian, because of this heinous Arminian doctrine. For me, I was sure God saved me, but I did get pulled down by the constant repetitions that we could lose our salvation because of our actions, when I KNEW God was in control.

So, in my many read through the Bible, I started copying down verses that supported each side. Other than the Hebrews 6 verse (which I later found out needs a different kind of interpretation!) and everything else supported eternal security. I also know I did not pick myself to be saved. I tried hard to be saved. Watched gospel shows, said sinner's prayers, and I knew my heart was black. One day, my husband told me I needed to repent of my sins, and I heard John 3:16 in my head! I knew I was saved, not because of my works, obedience, but because God had called me, and the Holy Spirit had changed my heart. I went from being a dead person, to God giving me a new heart.

"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved." Eph. 2:1-5

I learned more about the sovereignty of God. Like anyone would walk away from God! As 1 John 2:19 says:

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, because if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But they went out from us to demonstrate that all of them do not belong to us" 1 John 2:19

Anyone who says they are saved and walks away, was never saved by God. We are saved by the power of the Holy Spirit, who also gives us the strength to follow. When I first got RA, I was not on good meds, and in constant pain. I turned away from God. I stopped reading my Bible daily and praying. But, after 2 years God started calling me back and told me to read 5 Psalms a day, like Billy Graham did. It was wonderful to read what God's people had written. I read 5 Psalms a day for 2 years. One day, I turned around. I knew God had been there all the time, waiting for me to turn back to him. He never left me. He picked me for his purposes. He also knows I will hold on till Christ returns. That is all that matters, although I have tried to obey, and serve God with all my heart.

So glad I am not subject to a doctrine that breeds a fear of God, but instead, the bible tells me that he will "never leave or forsake me." Hebrews 13:5.

Nor will we ever reach sinless perfection in this life. When God saves us here is what happens:

1. Justification: God saves us. It is monergism. Only 1- God alone can save us. " Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," Romans 5:1

2. Sanctification. This is God working together with us to refine our hearts and minds to become more like Christ. (synergism) After 42 year a Christian, God has helped me change radically from the evil, selfish person I was. "May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 5:23

3. Glorification - Finally, God makes us his perfect saints. This will not happen till Jesus returns. But, it will happen! " And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." romans 8:28-30

I think Arminians get very mixed up about this order of salvation. Like Catholics, they put sanctification first, and try to win God's favour. Catholics end up in purgatory (look that up in your Bible dictionary). Arminians just keep on trying to win God's favour, and be perfect. Follow the three steps above, and you will find a deeper and more real relationship with God, when you acknowledge him as sovereign,, and take yourself off that throne of thinking you saved yourself!

Well I cant see in osas the inventation for free sin. As Paul statet in Romans chapter 6.

Its all from God, not mine....Just correct the spelling, lol.

when a person exchanges the truth for private definitions of words, all their communication becomes confusion, and all their understanding, darkness.







the apostle John did not invent the Greek language.
the commandment is that we should love ((agapao)) one another.
agape is the noun form of the verb agapao.
no amount of debased rambling on anyone's part changes the truth.

we really need to rebuke Satan here, I could not agree with you anymore, Your absolutely correct, That Satan is bad theology altogether, there is quite a few places in our Bible where you see Satan, you also see a false representation of God, and I believe strongly for that reason he is giving the title The false accuser of God's children, a title never to be removed, because this is his character, he's never going to change, he crossed the line he went evil and decided to use evil to gain power, never to come back again, also throughout the Bible we see multiple personalities, that Satan takes up and multiple false identities he appears as, and many other places we see a double minded mentality, we also see Satan's character, in other places in the Bible we see Satan taking up more than one character at the same time and more one than personality, at the same time, playing the good angel and the bad angel in one sentence, his character being mind manipulation of the person who's thoughts are on the receiving end of those thought, his character also being one to deceive always looking to get away with deceiving somebody or convert somebody into a false precept or belief of God or tempting somebody,

But yet it seems none of this is taking into account when people believe that God can send Satan to test somebody,

My belief of job 1 is there is only one truth for me, and that is God was revealing Satan as a false accuser and a dirty tempter, and not revealing Satan as a person given a job to test people to see if they will sin. I believe also Satan was defeated in Job 1, and it's the same with Jesus, the holy spirit was revealing Satan as a dirty tempter and tester, when Jesus was led up of the spirit to meet the dirty tempter,

But all said and done we should also remember that we should not hold a grudge against this dirty tempter and just rebuke his authority with strength and peace in are heart, and just accept his behaviour as a crazy person, but also we don't have to forgive Satan or sombody left else sin against somebody else, but certainly we should not let a crazy individual of a mad man, make us become angry and hold a grudge,.

Theres also a doctrin going around that says if you can't forgive Satan God will not forgive you,. And satan is a test to see if you can or can't forgive,,. But I say to that if I haven't forgiven someone yet it does not mean I hold a grudge it's means I have patience in coming to the decision, that forgiveness comes when your ready. And not when it's pushed.

Do you see also in the poem it's revealing the agenda of Satan, that Satan wants paradise lost and intends to have it lost in earth and heaven, and that he wants people to blame God for being created when they do wrong because they where molded from clay. Do you see that John Milton Is also revealing how evil becomes evil.

Show me where I said that? All thought we must....... to be righteous.

(..."and all liars"...)

preciously my point...I can learn more from the Bible.
So I will take my chances.

I was not questioning all Of Paul's theology so while I appreciate the reminder of how Paul was used in a good way I don't appreciate the notion that I would not honour that, you still have not replied to the fact that Pauls philosophy suggests God created some people to honour and some people to dishonour, which suggest God created evil. Which we know is not true, because in the beginning all that God created God saw that it was good.

Your believing God created evil are you not ?.

If at all possible, try to see it from God's perspective. I addressed this issue earlier on in our exchange of comments. Remember the bit about how if God kills someone it's righteous, but if you kill someone then it's evil? That's the different standard of good and evil that applies to the Creator versus the created thing (humans.) This takes wisdom, patience, and understanding.

OSAS implies sin is free of repentance....it is not...we must repent of all sin. The suggested lords daily prayer includes...forgive us of our trespasses (sins) as we forgive our trespassers.....(sins). Why if OSAS were true?

Further...why would God need to give us unlimited number of forgiveness...if OSAS were true...we would only need one.

You have a lack of understanding of righteousness.
The Bible says...."maintain until the end".
etc.

Does OSAS also
This is still suggesting that God can allow evil to kill, because God can restore life as soon as he takes it, or that the life he takes is his life to take, but still your suggesting, God can allow evil to take life also, or allow evil to test or tempt people, in the same notion because it's his life to test or that the life that he created went evil, so he can use that evil life how ever he sees see fit because why, ? Because it's his life,. Your philosophy here is still pointing towards that God gives evil permission. But this is still philosophy and this still can be rule to deception, because in many places where we see evil mentioned we see a false representation of God.

We are to follow Jesus,. Which Jesus does not have anything to do with evil, Or The fathers scriptures which says he will not have evil anywhere near him and utterly detests evil.

amen OSAS also implies there future sins are also forgiven, with no mention of repentance which is leading people into sin. Also OSAS is also a works based theology to some degree because there always working towards proving there theology is correct in every avenue.

God isn't evil. What I am trying to say is that you don't seem to understand what good and evil are exactly. I don't mean that offensively, please don't go on an ego trip and get offended, we have enough that around the board lately. Please know that I always mean everything I say constructively and with good intentions.

They're subjective based on the context. For example, God said not to kill (Exodus 20:13) but in Deuteronomy 20:1 there are guidelines for going to war; war which involves killing. That's just another example, we can literally go all day with examples I think.

Again, the context matters of the who, the what, the when, and why. This is because God is a judge who weighs matters and not a rigid, inflexible, unfeeling automaton. Maybe this conversation is more about who God is and our seeming inability to understand Him based on human standards and reasoning.