How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

As you have trumpeted many times "isolation of scripture"
ad hominen attack from you = this is how you cycle yourself

ad hominen attack and false accusation

Go back and read all your posts. Here's one you just sent:

Laura, you are following exactly want satan wants you to do by fighting against the very clear words of the Lord, the Apostles and the commandment Jesus has given to all of us from His Revelation.Lashing out with ad hominen attacks is the result of refusing to give your self to scriptual reflection, prayer and understanding."

If that isn't holier than thou, I don't know what is.

Not in the slightest - it is a very thing you have given yourself to

Good Night Laura

"…22Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, together with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23But reject foolish and ignorant speculation, for you know that it breeds quarreling. 24And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing.…"--2 Timothy 2:23

I will be unwatching this thread--I am sorry I engaged with you all in this way--it was not a wise use of my time. I realize I should have exited this forum long ago.

I disagree. (I am strictly referring to your reactionary posts here.)

In your earlier posts, you reacted quickly to other people's posts with negative sarcasm and a "you hurt my feelings by disagreeing with me, how dare you" attitude. (And, you are still doing some of that.)

However, over the course of time/posts, you have - it seems - in a way - "settled down" a bit, with regard to the "emotional outburst" aspect of your reactive posts.

I might be wrong, but that is the way I remember it. (Without going back and reading every one of your posts.)

I did actually intend the last part for everyone.

Perhaps I should have inserted a line that said 'ALL:' at the point of transistion. But, I thought it would be understood.

Probably a good idea. Or, at least stay within the thread topic - I am pretty sure the OP would appreciate it.

It's bad enough when a thread "fills up" with useless bickering over the topic --- it's really bad when it is not even within reasonable bounds of the thread topic.

If you want to talk about 'soul sleep', go start a different thread on that topic.

It is not a parable. It actually happened.

You have taken this verse out of context.

Does not apply since Christ did not speak about the rich man to the crowd/multitudes. He was speaking to his disciples, the Pharisees overhead and Christ spoke to them WITHOUT A PARABLE, then continued speaking to his disciples.

Luk 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luk 16:2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
Luk 16:3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
Luk 16:4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.
Luk 16:5 So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord?
Luk 16:6 And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
Luk 16:7 Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
Luk 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Luk 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
Luk 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
Luk 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
Luk 16:12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Divorce and Remarriage
Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

No parable is used to speak to them.


Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

This matches the type of teaching he gave to his disciples so this most likely is said to them, not to the Pharisees. Either way, parables were only always spoken to the multitudes not the Pharisees.

You guys are hopeless. The First Resurrection indeed has TWO STAGES, one is Pre Trib and ends the Church Age Harvest via the LAST TRUMP (Feast of Trumps....might wanna look this up and STUDY IT), and the other is those who died during the 70th week, who live and reign with Jesus on earth for 1000 years. Its SO EASY, all you have t do is read, ONLY THOSE (Rev. 20:4) who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast live and reign with Jesus 1000 years, NOT THOSE Raptured Pre Trib AND those taken to heaven at that same time, why would those still living need to be CHANGED after Jesus return....you know why t makes no sense? Because its wrong, you guys couldn't add 2 + 2 = 4 without going into some hypothetical rant about how it could add up to 5.

You get your WRONG CONCLUSIONS, then you have to try and mold the scripture to YOUR BELEIF.

Well we do all have IMMORTAL SOULS, that because we are created in God's Image, but we do not go straight to heaven, they are just poor readers, the scriptures say the Dead are raised at the same time as the living are taken (or mili-seconds later....which = the SAME TIME)

THINK on this sister, where did Jess say he was going to be with the thief on the cross tat very day? Jesus told him TODAY you will be with me in Paradise, well, Jesus isn't speaking about Heaven, he went into the earth for 3 days, Paradise is a HOLDING PLACE (this is well known) for the dead Jewish souls who are resting and waiting to be taken to Heaven, Jesus went to preach to the lost souls also, so its not heaven. The reason Peter describes this world as being burned up like the Elements etc. is, IMHO, we are living on what will be Satan's eternal prison called hell, thus when we get a New Heaven and New Earth, Satan and his armies in Rev. 21 get burned up, I am convinced this earth is set on fire by God and they have won their prize, hell.

Not making excuses - trying to help you realize how you can overcome your "sensitivity" to other people's opinions.

Have you started to 'see' my posts as "just someone's opinion" yet? Are you anywhere close to beginning to understand what I am trying to get you to 'see'? Or, are you still allowing yourself to get tied in a knot over "someone's opinion"...?

"Grow some thicker skin, Laura."

Consider this a tough-love-style approach to helping you to understand the difference between confidence and arrogance.

Confidence is not [adversely] affected by other people's opinions - and, accepts and allows other people's opinions without angst.

"We may agree to disagree agreeably."

Arrogance is offended and provoked by disagreement - and, cannot rest even if left alone.

"It's my way or the highway!"



Speaking the truth is paramount - there is no doubt about it. However, there is no less importance in how it is presented.

"Food for thought..."

Read Revelation 20:4-5 carefully. A group is resurrected before the millennial kingdom and a group is resurrected after the millennial kingdom. Both resurrections are referred to as the first resurrection so that means the first resurrection is split into two groups. That’s what the verses say so I don’t see how that’s a bad idea.

This interpretation, which i believe is actually accurate, doesn’t contradict any other verses or cause any issues as far as I can see.

Your delivery of whatever you said is poor. Try using less randomly capitalized words and people might actually take you for a calm and sensible person.

Coupled with a random laughter emoji, I really just assume you’re trolling.

Someone batting for the pre-trib team doesn’t take a Bible discussion seriously is using all caps, a laughter emoji, and random ad hominems in a Bible discussion. Can I say I’m surprised? No. Honestly, you fit in with your constituents quite well because you aren’t the first to do that. I can’t even see your fruits of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said we’d know others by their fruits and I see your fruits, but they aren’t of the Spirit. Truly shameful. smh.

Fyi, all caps generally means screaming in Internet forums and it’s inappropriate. If you want to add emphasis to a word or sentence then use underline, bold, and/or italics.

....and some resort to nit picky personal attacks when their power points fail.

That tactic is from saul alenskis book rules for radicals.

That's all you did.
It was a PERSONAL attack.

UH...CAPS FOR EMPHASIS AS I AM LITERALLY WHISPERING

To you it is heretical. It agrees with the scriptures.

Luke 16:19ff is a parable. By Jesus' time, the Jews had adopted the Greek belief that the soul is immortal. It's not. Death means death. Jesus "met them where they were", so-to speak. The point of the parable is in verse 31.

Several posts ago you made some disparaging comments about the book of Ecclesiastes. You apparently do not think it is God-breathed? I do. If you're going to reject Ecclesiastes because it was written by Solomon, do you also reject the book of Proverbs? Ecc. contains some important statements about death. When a person dies, they don't know anything (Ecc 9:5), their emotions have perished (Ecc 9:6), and points out that there is no work, knowledge, or wisdom in the grave (Ecc 9:10). Also note that it says the grave is where YOU go, not just your body.

And if you're not going to believe Solomon, how about David?

Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Ps 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?
Ps 49:12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.
Ps 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ps 88:12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
Ps 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Or how about Isaiah?

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

Ezekiel?

Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Daniel?

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

It's unfortunate that many Christians ignorantly believe the first lie the devil told Eve: "you will NOT surely die".

Hello again...good morning
Question 1
Why are you on the attack?

Question 2
Are you saying that the donkey did or didn't talk?


God Bless!

AWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEE just like liberal progressive, Socialists we can't win via the facts so lets try to take the focus off he facts. In have been a Prophecy called Preacher for 35 years, I don't get my orders from you, what these sophomoric gestures always shows me is someone who seems to be trained in Alinsky tactics, and he has openly stated those tactics came from Satan. Guilt trip 101 fails every time here bud, grow up and stop living the modern age cry baby world.

As I glanced below, (above here but below the post I am now replying to, I see AB said the same thing, it was Alinsky like tactics, I only saw that after I wrote the above, so maybe you might want to check out the "12 Rules for Radicals" you seem to have those traits, maybe you were brainwashed in school and didn't realize it.

So, I read in sections, and you literally said nothing, because I DESTROYED your thesis, you put forth nonsensical drivel and try to attack, which never works on me, it makes me see you for what you are. Now run and hide again.

Good Morning Friend,
Just a little info on me, i do not like to say much but let the Scripture do the Speaking = i am abrupt = forgive my abruptness.

1.) Emphasis on Ecclesiastes is accurate and true: Do not use isolated scripture written BEFORE the first Coming of Christ to override the actual words, teachings and commandments of Christ.

2.) Also, teachings, and instruction from the Apostles writings/letters will clarify the limited OT writings and understanding.

3.) Genesis is the foundation for ALL Scripture that was to follow.

4.) ALL scriptural references to Sleeping in the Dust, Earth, Grave only pertains to the physical bodies of those who died in the LORD.

This is made CLEAR by Scripture Itself as Scripture denotes the exact location of where ALL physical bodies of man return to.

GENESIS 3:19
By the sweat of your brow you will eat your bread, until you return to the ground—because out of it were you taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return.”

Solomon who wrote Ecclesiates had limited knowledge and so he asked a question - Ecc 3:21

Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth? So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

Solomon could not comprehend life beyond the grave, this understanding was hidden from him.

UPDATE your spirit, soul, mind/heart on the Wisdom of God = Luke 11:31

The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and now One greater than Solomon is here.