The earliest identified Amillennialist is a presbyter in Rome in the third century, named Gaius, who also opposed the canonization of the book of Revelation. Doesn't look like anything has changed much. Revelation is anti-Amillennialism. This also proves that Amillennialism is a Catholic invention, the same who created eternal torment and so many other unbiblical doctrines.
How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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Downfall of churches = "furthermore it is a rare church that will hire a pastor without a theology degree."
This is Open for ALL who are His = no special school/college/university applies
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
God makes the Call, gives the Grace and gives the Gifts. They do not come from Bible School/College/Universities
Romans 12:6-7
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;
This is Open for ALL who are His = no special school/college/university applies
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
God makes the Call, gives the Grace and gives the Gifts. They do not come from Bible School/College/Universities
Romans 12:6-7
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;
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Also, the immortality of the soul was a belief Protestants got from the Catholics who got from the pagans. You have to believe in the immortality of the soul if you believe a person goes straight to heaven or hell when they die. And to believe that means there is no reason for Christ to return to gather the elect and no reason for the judgment if both groups have already arrived at their destination.
Honestly, I feel like I'm in a Christian version of Alice in Wonderland in this forum.
"I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
That's false. The soul is not immortal but the bible is clear the spirit of a person goes to heaven at death, or to Hades if the person was unsaved.
Heaven is not the final destination.
However, Amillennialism is of Catholic origin so you may wish to re-evaluate that.
And to believe that means there is no reason for Christ to return to gather the elect and no reason for the judgment if both groups have already arrived at their destination.
However, Amillennialism is of Catholic origin so you may wish to re-evaluate that.
In a way - you do - just "presented" in a different way with a different approach.
Granted - you have had some people say some things to you that perhaps could have been put across in a better way. And, some of them may certainly be deemed to be unnecessary.
Still - it would be better if you "answered" with an intellectual ("studied") approach rather than an emotional ("reactionary") one.
Stick to the topic.
(And, what you have brought up to discuss really should have its own thread.)
Don't get caught up in needless distractions that derail the discussion.
Certainly something to think about and consider. And, I do. (Because I can do that - think about something without necessarily believing it.)
However - "when the thinking is done/over" - I am not likely to change my belief/view unless "a very good case has been made" - in my own thoughts - that is sufficiently convincing to the extent that "all things agree" that are relevant.
And, at the moment - as I see it - there is too much 'disagreement' in all-of-scripture with what you are suggesting...
It is my observation that you need to learn how to discuss a topic without letting yourself get bent-out-of-shape like a pretzel.
And, it is not my intent to insult you; rather, I am trying to help you realize that - the reactions you are getting - are virtually "guaranteed" by your approach and demeanor.
You must learn to not let it upset you and/or "throw you off" just because others don't see things the same way you do.
The only way any of us will truly benefit from topical discussion on these forums is if we all discuss the topic in a stable way - not allowing anything to become "personal" - but, rather, keeping the disussion 'focused' on the 'details' of the topic and not anything else.
Intelligent conversation requires a certain level of self-control on the part of everyone involved.
We are each responsible for ourselves.
Let's aim for that, shall we...?
Granted - you have had some people say some things to you that perhaps could have been put across in a better way. And, some of them may certainly be deemed to be unnecessary.
Still - it would be better if you "answered" with an intellectual ("studied") approach rather than an emotional ("reactionary") one.
Stick to the topic.
(And, what you have brought up to discuss really should have its own thread.)
Don't get caught up in needless distractions that derail the discussion.
Certainly something to think about and consider. And, I do. (Because I can do that - think about something without necessarily believing it.)
However - "when the thinking is done/over" - I am not likely to change my belief/view unless "a very good case has been made" - in my own thoughts - that is sufficiently convincing to the extent that "all things agree" that are relevant.
And, at the moment - as I see it - there is too much 'disagreement' in all-of-scripture with what you are suggesting...
It is my observation that you need to learn how to discuss a topic without letting yourself get bent-out-of-shape like a pretzel.
And, it is not my intent to insult you; rather, I am trying to help you realize that - the reactions you are getting - are virtually "guaranteed" by your approach and demeanor.
You must learn to not let it upset you and/or "throw you off" just because others don't see things the same way you do.
The only way any of us will truly benefit from topical discussion on these forums is if we all discuss the topic in a stable way - not allowing anything to become "personal" - but, rather, keeping the disussion 'focused' on the 'details' of the topic and not anything else.
Intelligent conversation requires a certain level of self-control on the part of everyone involved.
We are each responsible for ourselves.
Let's aim for that, shall we...?
Teachers? I haven't attended the institutional church for eight years now. As I said in several previous posts, I was taught the same myth all of you were in my childhood denomination--I studied this for myself and found it to be an unbiblical false doctrine which does not align with the rest of scripture.
And I suggest your work more on that tearing down...
Also, the immortality of the soul was a belief Protestants got from the Catholics who got from the pagans. You have to believe in the immortality of the soul if you believe a person goes straight to heaven or hell when they die. And to believe that means there is no reason for Christ to return to gather the elect and no reason for the judgment if both groups have already arrived at their destination.
Honestly, I feel like I'm in a Christian version of Alice in Wonderland in this forum.
"I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Honestly, I feel like I'm in a Christian version of Alice in Wonderland in this forum.
"I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
They don’t get it, and won’t get it. They’re committed to what they believe.
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He is not evil - he is just being very direct.
It will help you if you learn to 'see' every post as someone's opinion.
I tell you these things in the hope that it will "sink in" and enable you to "stop reacting to other people's opinions" (which is actually what you are doing) and start "discussing instead of cussing" (please understand the context).
Don't get mad at me - I am trying to help you.
It will help you if you learn to 'see' every post as someone's opinion.
I tell you these things in the hope that it will "sink in" and enable you to "stop reacting to other people's opinions" (which is actually what you are doing) and start "discussing instead of cussing" (please understand the context).
Don't get mad at me - I am trying to help you.
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You say , "And, at the moment - as I see it - there is too much 'disagreement' in all-of-scripture with what you are suggesting..."
I say instead, "No, there is actually too much disagreement with your interpretation of scripture."
Intellectual, studied approach? It is only in the last few posts I have become emotional--I'm sorry, but you obviously are not familiar with my posts because most are intellectual, reasoned, and carefully formulated using an abundance of scripture.
You say 'We are each responsible for ourselves" --hmm, but in this case you thought fit to tell me how I 'ought' to behave. (oh but left everyone else out of this).
It's way past time for me to 'unwatch' this post.
I say instead, "No, there is actually too much disagreement with your interpretation of scripture."
Intellectual, studied approach? It is only in the last few posts I have become emotional--I'm sorry, but you obviously are not familiar with my posts because most are intellectual, reasoned, and carefully formulated using an abundance of scripture.
You say 'We are each responsible for ourselves" --hmm, but in this case you thought fit to tell me how I 'ought' to behave. (oh but left everyone else out of this).
It's way past time for me to 'unwatch' this post.
And what you said here is a heretical and completely contrary to Scripture.
Now there was a rich man dressed in purple and fine linen, who lived each day in joyous splendor. 20And a beggar named Lazarus lay at his gate, covered with sores 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22One day the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. And the rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side.
24So he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. For I am in agony in this fire.’
25But Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are in agony. 26And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’
27‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also end up in this place of torment.’
29But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’
30‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
Luke ch16
Now there was a rich man dressed in purple and fine linen, who lived each day in joyous splendor. 20And a beggar named Lazarus lay at his gate, covered with sores 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22One day the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. And the rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side.
24So he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. For I am in agony in this fire.’
25But Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are in agony. 26And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’
27‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also end up in this place of torment.’
29But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’
30‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
Luke ch16
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Thank you VaRob. I've been foolish to attempt to argue my point and to become so emotionally invested in it. But it's not only trying to prove my point. It really is disturbing to me that anyone can believe such a thing; if anyone would take the time to more carefully examine this belief (which has several other false beliefs nestled within it) it nullifies Christ's coming and the judgment--and the glorious resurrection of the saints to everlasting glory. All of it becomes a moot point. And I guess that is what Satan wants.
Thank you VaRob. I've been foolish to attempt to argue my point. But it's not only about the point. It's disturbing that anyone can believe such a thing; if anyone would take the time to more carefully examine this belief (which has several other false beliefs nestled within it) it nullifies Christ's coming and the judgment--and the glorious resurrection of the saints to everlasting glory. All of it becomes a moot point. And I guess that is what Satan wants.
Lashing out with ad hominen attacks is the result of refusing to give your self to scriptual reflection, prayer and understanding.
The amount of patience spent with you by many on here is the grace of God in our hearts poured out for you.
Declaring passages of Scripture as 'myth' over and over again is hardness of heart thru unbelief.
No, I don't think so--interesting you make excuses for other's bad behavior, but then say you are trying to 'help' me--posting here where everyone can see -- what a great guy GaryA is, "Go get 'em Gary!" Laura of course not us--we're on your side.
if you really wanted to help, you would have simply sent a private message instead of posting it here.
if you really wanted to help, you would have simply sent a private message instead of posting it here.
David, you do know that is a parable, right?
"Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable."--Matthew 13:34
"Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable."--Matthew 13:34
Neither are you able to discern the literal from symbolic in Revelation, which you constantly attack.
The Lord Jesus Christ clearly pointed out the actual living individuals by name, Lazarus and Abraham = no parable here.
The Lord did not mention the rich man by name because he was unworthy, and the Lord did this with Bathsheba as well.