How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[Runningman]

When our flesh (natural) body dies we are all given spiritual bodies. Everyone of us, both the saved and the unsaved.

Let’s say we are still alive in our flesh and blood bodies when Jesus returns at the 7th trump. Our bodies will be changed into our spiritual bodies in the twinkling of an eye. ….but keep in mind, we are talking about bodies here, not souls.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This doesn’t mean we will have become immortal. It jus means that we will just be given a spirit body that's incorruptible but not necessarily immortal.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

These are two separate happenings:

The first thing that happens is that our flesh body is changed into a spirit body either at Christ's return or when we die in the flesh, whichever happens first.

Now here comes the second happening. Some of us will be granted eternal life/immortality at Christ's return (This is the First Resurrection). However some of us who didn’t make it must wait until after the 1000 year Millennium when at the Great White Throne Judgment, they will either be granted eternal life/immortality (The Second Resurrection) or eternal death which is to perish (along wth Satan).

The way interpret the first resurrection it occurs in two stages. The first stage is a bonus resurrection for those martyrs of the great tribulation and they reign 1,000 years. The second stage of the first resurrection includes everyone else.

I haven’t heard too many people interpret it this way, but I wonder if you can see it?

Revelation 20:4-5
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I think it proves that the resurrection mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 are deceased saints from the great tribulation being resurrected.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

There’s a another clue in verse 17 that suggests that those who are resurrected are part of a group who didn’t survive something. Notice it says “then we which are alive and remain…”

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In English, when we talk about those who remain, we’re talking about those who survived something.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:17, the word remain is talking about people who have survived.

G4035. perileipomai
perileipomai: to be left remaining
Original Word: περιλείπω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: perileipomai
Phonetic Spelling: (per-ee-li'-po)
Definition: to be left remaining
Usage: I leave behind; pass: I am left behind, remain, survive.

Just something to consider. I wonder if anyone else has noticed this post-tribulation rapture proof?

 

[Laura798]

What I posted, Laura, you cannot understand yet (lots of meat); I apologize for even putting it down. Please forgive me.

I can’t believe you call that meat when that is what the majority of unbelievers— who believe in ‘a’ god, but not the one true God believe. They believe all people have immortal souls and go straight to either heaven or hell after they die, but Christians who have the bible are without excuse for believing in these myths.
ps the millennial kingdom is NOT a literal kingdom.

 

[walknlight]

Hi!

Paradise/Heaven--do you think they are two different things?
Indeed!
(Mar 16:19) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

G3772
οὐρανός
ouranos
Thayer Definition:
1) the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it
1a) the universe, the world
1b) the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
1c) the sidereal or starry heavens
2) the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings


(Luk 23:43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

G3857
παράδεισος
paradeisos
Thayer Definition:
1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
2) a garden, pleasure ground
2a) grove, park
3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
5) heaven

No one has ascended to heaven but the Son.

No. No one has yet, physically ascended to heaven but the Son.
God Bless!

 

[Laura798]

Hi!

Well i believe paradise is the newly created earth. Because Revelation says God will dwell with men.

 

[walknlight]

arrogance
[ˈerəɡəns]

NOUN

1. the quality of being arrogant.
   "the arrogance of this man is astounding"
   synonyms:
   haughtiness · conceit · hubris · self-importance · egotism · sense of superiority · pomposity · high-handedness · swagger · boasting · bumptiousness · bluster · condescension · disdain · contempt · imperiousness · pride · vanity · immodesty · loftiness ·
   [more]

 

[walknlight]

Hello again...

Poor response. They can discern easily between nonsense and reason.

John 16:13 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
-------
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
-------
1Thess 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.


God bless!

 

[Laura798]

theological professor??? = they only exist in carnal religions around the world

Deat me— were not talking theology— we are talking about nonsense and reason and of course it would be one who is grounded in the scripture! Such utter nonsense!

 

[Laura798]

arrogance
[ˈerəɡəns]

NOUN

1. the quality of being arrogant.
   "the arrogance of this man is astounding"
   synonyms:
   haughtiness · conceit · hubris · self-importance · egotism · sense of superiority · pomposity · high-handedness · swagger · boasting · bumptiousness · bluster · condescension · disdain · contempt · imperiousness · pride · vanity · immodesty · loftiness ·
   [more]

Not sure who you mean here but id say its 80% of the posters….I think Itheophilus is the lnly one that posts her position without attacking or being arrogant.

 

[Laura798]

Hello again...


John 16:13 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
-------
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
-------
1Thess 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.


God bless!

Well, looks like youve posted this in the wrong place as i am the only one not using the symbolic book of Revelation to tell the literal picture of the second coming of Christ— weve got Biblehub, Biblegatway— no excuse to be in the dark ages when it comes to the facts of scripture.

God bless!

 

[ewq1938]

The way interpret the first resurrection it occurs in two stages. The first stage is a bonus resurrection for those martyrs of the great tribulation and they reign 1,000 years. The second stage of the first resurrection includes everyone else.

I think that's a bad idea. There are no stages mentioned in scripture. Revelation 20 merely focuses on one group of the dead in Christ. The dead in Christ rise first means all rise at that same time. "rise first"


1Th_4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


"Rise first" is literally the same as "first resurrection" found here:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

first/G4413 resurrection/G386 is "protos anastasis"
Rise/G450 first/G4412 is "anistēmi proton"

Proton and protos are related words that both mean "first". Proton is the neuter of the word protos. They are synonyms and are directly related words.

Anastasis was created from it's root word, anistēmi. They are synonyms and are directly related words.

There are not two stages of the first resurrection ie: those who shall rise first. All the dead in Christ will rise at the same exact time. Revelation 20 simply focuses on one group like if there were a million people in a dark room and you shined a flashlight at a group of around a thousand. The others are still there. The light just isn't being shown at them at that time.

 

[GaryA]

Not sure who you mean here but id say its 80% of the posters….I think Itheophilus is the lnly one that posts her position without attacking or being arrogant.

I am fairly certain that it has been well-established that - in your view - those who have been "attacking" and/or "being arrogant" are - no more and no less - those who disagree with you...

I am also pretty sure that you - more than anyone - have been guilty of those things.

If I remember correctly, you accused me of such after I simply asked you a few questions regarding your view of some scripture verses.

Instead of giving an answer from your POV, you ranted about how no one wanted to look at all scripture... (because all scripture must agree)

Well - what do you think we have been doing???

We have been showing you various verses/passages that must also be in agreement...

But, you have ignored them - "just like" you say everyone ignores "your verses"...

Yet - we have not ignored "your verses"; rather, we have tried to show you that those verses do not say what you have somehow been led to believe.

 

[Laura798]

I am fairly certain that it has been well-established that - in your view - those who have been "attacking" and/or "being arrogant" are - no more and no less - those who disagree with you...

I am also pretty sure that you - more than anyone - have been guilty of those things.

If I remember correctly, you accused me of such after I simply asked you a few questions regarding your view of some scripture verses.

Instead of giving an answer from your POV, you ranted about how no one wanted to look at all scripture... (because all scripture must agree)

Well - what do you think we have been doing???

We have been showing you various verses/passages that must also be in agreement...

But, you have ignored them - "just like" you say everyone ignores "your verses"...

Yet - we have not ignored "your verses"; rather, we have tried to show you that those verses do not say what you have somehow been led to believe.

You've got to be kidding me, Gary--seriously? I've added myself in the mix, as far as arrogance goes--I feel like I am dealing with backwards people on this forum who have 'turned aside to myths'. Who are always going down the windy overgrown path thru the heavily wooded forest of Revelation--ALL THE TIME-- instead of the straight, smooth road of the other gospels and letters where you can easily read in plain, simple language what is going to happen in the END --I mean to say the BIG PICTURE of Christ's Second coming. One can also match up prophecies in the OT to gain better understanding of much of Revelation. However, most of you START at Revelation and ignore much of the plain language of Christ and the apostles.

However, I don't tell anyone what they write is 'worthless' or 'baloney'--I am not bombastic say "I've made such a hole in your theory you could sail a ship thru it" or call down proclamations on people like I think I am God himself.

PS Led to believe? I was taught what you guys believed in the church I grew up in--I studied the scriptures on my own because it didn't make sense--how could people go to heaven or hell before the judgment--once I asked the question, I was able to see the truth that was there all the time.

 

[GaryA]

Paradise/Heaven--do you think they are two different things? Paul said "Whether in the body our out of the body I do not know"--Of course it was because it was so real. No one has ascended to heaven but the Son.

I think you missed the point...

Whether in the body or out of the body, verse 2 indicates someone was "caught up to the third heaven"...

 

[DavidTree]

You've got to be kidding me, Gary--seriously? I've added myself in the mix, as far as arrogance goes--I feel like I am dealing with backwards people on this forum who have 'turned aside to myths'. Who are always going down the windy overgrown path thru the heavily wooded forest of Revelation--ALL THE TIME-- instead of the straight, smooth road of the other gospels and letters where you can easily read in plain, simple language what is going to happen in the END --I mean to say the BIG PICTURE of Christ's Second coming. One can also match up prophecies in the OT to gain better understanding of much of Revelation. However, most of you START at Revelation and ignore much of the plain language of Christ and the apostles.

However, I don't tell anyone what they write is 'worthless' or 'baloney'--I am not bombastic say "I've made such a hole in your theory you could sail a ship thru it" or call down proclamations on people like I think I am God himself.

PS Led to believe? I was taught what you guys believed in the church I grew up in--I studied the scriptures on my own because it didn't make sense--how could people go to heaven or hell before the judgment--once I asked the question, I was able to see the truth that was there all the time.

For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John 3:18

Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and
will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.
24Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25Righteous Father, although the world has not known You, I know You, and they know that You sent Me. 26And I have made Your name known to them and will continue to make it known, so that the love You have for Me may be in them, and I in them.”

 

[Laura798]

Dear Laura, religion is always the bully. i am here for You and more importantly = CHRIST is here for you.

Just trust His Word like a little child that we ALL are.

There are no 'theological professors' in Heaven and none ever made it in.

ONLY from the Father's Call and thru the Precious Blood of Christ = for by Grace have you been saved not of works lest any man should boast.

Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.

You said, "There are no 'theological professors' in Heaven and none ever made it in."< Really? How do you know this? Do you have a red phone to God? I believe there are a great number of theological professors as well as their friends and family that would beg to differ with you.

 

[DavidTree]

You said, "There are no 'theological professors' in Heaven and none ever made it in."< Really? How do you know this? Do you have a red phone to God? I believe there are a great number of theological professors as well as their friends and family that would beg to differ with you.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
not by works, so that no one can boast.
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.a

 

[Laura798]

every erroneous doctrine does the exact same.

If you torture the truth long enough, you can make it say anything you need it to.

If he is correct, show me where he address the martyrs under the altar in rev.
They are pre resurrection.....and are in heaven....against your doctrine.

And that is EXACTLY what you're doing- not so much torturing as ignoring and mistranslating. As I said before you guys really need to stop using Revelation as a proof text--- go to the literal verses first and see what they say--scripture NEVER contradicts itself.

 

[Laura798]

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
not by works, so that no one can boast.
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.a

 

[Laura798]

For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John 3:18

Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and
will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.
24Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25Righteous Father, although the world has not known You, I know You, and they know that You sent Me. 26And I have made Your name known to them and will continue to make it known, so that the love You have for Me may be in them, and I in them.”

 

[Laura798]

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
not by works, so that no one can boast.
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.a

Um....being a professor isn't a work to get into heaven--they are a teacher; furthermore it is a rare church that will hire a pastor without a theology degree.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Romans 12:6-7
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;