Do you want to know the truth?

the problem with kelby and wansvic, is that their filters are somewhat clogged

they equate water baptism as necessary for salvation, fudge about saying so, try to include the baptism of the Holy Spirit while saying they are not and then say everyone else is confused

wansvic does not believe in the Trinity...she is Oneness pentecostal or at least oneness

kelby believes water washed away sin and you must be baptized or you are not saved

why? are you the one handing out the Holy Spirit?

GOD seals believers with His Spirit...not you and since you believe water baptism is equal to cleansing of sin with Christ's blood shed on the cross, I do not think you are able to speculate on who has the Holy Spirit

first and foremost, is forgiveness of our sins through Christ...NOT water and not some dude with his own checklist

so there is an expository thread on the beliefs of wansvic and kelby HERE. the title of that thread is 'saved by water'

here, in post 27 in that thread, wansvic states:

Consider the NT spiritual reality foreshadowed by the flood. God used literal water to destroy sin on the Earth and at the same time saved Noah and his family.

According to scripture, one's personal sins can be washed away in obedience to the command to be baptized in water. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) This is only possible for those who believe that Jesus paid the penalty for sin through his sacrifice.

Believing God's entire message and being obedient to the associated aspects is what prompts the NT spiritual reality of being born again.'

this is a long thread...86 pages, but does contain some insight to what the two above believe

Yes including you. You have a filter and you yourself hold a set of teaching also called "doctrine" we all do. To suggest others do and you have the unfiltered truth is not true. You start this thread by setting up a false narrative or a half-truth thinking it will strengthen your position.


You try and suggest discernment is known by what one teaches or what one accepts as doctrine. That is not discernment.

Jesus said :

Matthew 7:15-16 in context to false teachers & Prophets

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits.

To know what they are teaching is of God well and if they are led by the Holy Spirit, Paul said :


1cor 12:3

3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.


Discernment is maturity in the word of God as one LIVE IT.

I think most people read the bible with preconceived glasses on. That is their "filter." They read a passage expecting it to say what they already believe. It is difficult to do otherwise, but not impossible.

This is why it is so difficult to get people OUT of a cult. They have been well trained to read scripture with their preconceived theories intact.

The question you asked traces back to Nehemiah6's incorrect statement about my stance on baptism as it relates to when a person receives the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost. That's why I included that part in my answer. My apologies if you felt I was putting words into your mouth.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

"There was a man sent from God, whose name was John." - (John 1:6 KJV )
"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." - (Mark 1:4 KJV)
"...the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. [3] And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" - (Luke 3:2-3 KJV)

If you want to know why John the baptist was the greatest prophet of all that were born of women... you just read it in the scriptures. No priest, prophet or righteous man before him was ever given the power to truly remit (remove, wash away) sins. "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." -(Hebrews 10:4) But whether you believe the scriptures or not, John was given the authority and mechanism to do just that. Baptism for the remission of sins.

That's why I say water baptism is NECESSARY, not optional.

And, to address the other part of the equation for those reading this... Remission of sins (having your sins removed from you) is NOT the same thing as receiving the Holy Ghost. "...for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified." - John 7:39 KJV

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I realize that I have filters through which I still see the word inaccurately. I've known that for years and it still surprises me when God opens something that was written all along yet I was unable to see it because of my filters. I started this thread with the intention of opening other people's eyes as to the fact that we have these filters and that they hinder each of us to various degrees.

And yes, I'd also like to teach others what God has revealed to me, because I'm not ashamed to say that God still teaches people directly. That's why I encourage people to seek God for themselves instead of believing they are unworthy to hear his voice. Once they establish that connection, they can ask Him for themselves if the things I speak are of God or out of the mind of the flesh. God is no respecter of persons. What God does for me, he'll do for them if they seek him similarly. What God did for Paul or Peter or even Jesus, he's willing to do for us, too. But how many are willing to believe that God loves us as much as he loves Jesus? Are we willing to admit the current limits of our faith and ask God to help us believe more fully?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I want to know the TRUTH!
God's truth not man's!

I am sola scripture,the Holy Spirit is MY filter.
I do realize we have perceptions in ourselves that are formed by others.

We do look through a glass darkly and when looking in a mirror we see ourselves but when turning away we forget what manner we are!

In coming here to this site,I have NEVER read nor heard of some of the bodacious fallacies,errors and outright lies that I've seen here.

So yes Kelby tell me the TRUTH.
If scripture proves scripture, I'll believe it.

now that we all understand what you actually believe, I think I'm good

no thank you to your particular brand of personal interpretation

that is perfectly fine to do so and is your right. There is one filter only one that hinders one from hearing God through His word

SIN.

OP: "Do you want to know the truth? Everyone uses A Filter"?

(1) Yes, Best Filter Is The PERFECT Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (Rule #2 of Bible "study" Rules)

(2) This Confusion about water baptism is because of the filters
of Many Different religious and Denominational traditions, Correct?

Is God's Answer Found Through The Filters Of HIS Word and HIS Rules?:

12 baptisms

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

ONE Baptism

Please Be Richly Encouraged In HIS PERFECT Word of Truth, Rightly
Divided...

For me what you said a filter for "who is saved" not a filter when it comes to doctrines. What troubles me is .. and I have seen it on other Christian forums.. its not wrong but your post now becomes your past. "well you said this back"..has it happen to me? No clue lol. Its like to me them saying. "got ya!" Ok now post your doctrine which might also need a filter. Be here all day. We now forget what we have said posted in the past ...oh but its not what I said..its what you said! lol

So if I take it for whats posted and believe all things not reading anything into it. Seems his heart is in the right place. One can only hope it could be that easy. Titus 2 talks about sound doctrine. Why I try to always say "don't believe me you find this in the word, this is what I believe and why". blah blah blah.

I know not many talk as if what I say is truth, but can you produce any scriptures that say we cannot know? I know of several that point to the need for such knowledge, and examples showing that it is indeed possible to discern the moment when someone receives the Holy Ghost and also that it is possible to know that someone has not yet received the Holy Ghost. That's what's recorded in the bible. When the teachings of man say "that's impossible" for some reason or other, we know which of those we're supposed to trust and which we're supposed to recognize as incorrect. One reason people prefer the doctrines of man is that those doctrines don't require us to question our current status and reach for something higher as if we're missing something important.

reneweddaybyday said:

Someone may have the Holy Ghost and yet be a babe in Christ ... another may know a lot of Scripture and be able to quote Scripture verbatim, as well as behave as if they have Holy Ghost (even thinking they do have Holy Ghost) yet not have the Holy Ghost.

Click to expand...

I agree with what you're saying here. The first part is basically telling people not to be too hard on themselves for their perceived shortcomings. The second part is warning against confidence where it actually isn't warranted.

Satan uses those natural tendencies against us. Before we are exposed to the word of God we are often blissfully unaware of our dangerous situation. Then someone tells us something of the word of God. We listen, and do whatever that person or group tells us is needed. BUT... and this next part is hard to navigate without people freaking out... Jesus warns us about blind leaders (not maliciously lying leaders) who lead the blind. If that happens, both still fall into the ditch.

The fear we faced when those first people taught us about God can be greatly multiplied when we HONESTLY consider that those same church leaders COULD be blind leaders. We seem to be fine believing that every OTHER church could be blind, but not OUR church.
And yet so many here are saying "No, you can't actually tell whether or not someone has the Holy Ghost". Do they realize that means they don't even know if their own pastor actually has the Holy Spirit?! (Talk about a safe hiding place for falsehood and deception!! Not to mention the risk to those following.)

Sorry so long of a reply.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The problem almost all Christians have is in understanding the law and accepting every verse that pertains to the law.

The law is only a tool, like a hammer is a tool. It is solid, intact, always there. It is not the earthly type commandments given before Christ put the commandments in our hearts like circumcision was. But the ten commandments give us the law in stone, later put in our hearts.

The law defines the sin that causes our death if we are without Christ, and rather than accept the truth of that some say it is the only way this law (this tool) can be used. That can be compared to saying a hammer needs to hammer things apart, don't use it to build.

The Lord said if you love me you will keep my commandments, that is the truth. The law guides us as we follow Christ in our hearts.

Well said!

And if we don't think WE are susceptible to that kind of thinking, we only need to ask "When is the last time I looked at the scriptures in a manner that is NOT consistent with what my CHURCH teaches?"

Oddly enough, there is one phrase that really stuck with me from my childhood church. "People read the bible in one of two ways... Either to CONFIRM what they believe, or to CONFORM what they believe"

If we read the bible and it confirms everything we've already been taught and believe, then we know which type of reader we are being. GOD has more to teach you than what your church teaches...guaranteed.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Yes, that is the first filter I am suggesting people learn how to test. If we think we cannot (and therefore do not) know if our pastor has the Holy Spirit, then we need to ask God to teach us indeed! And I don't think people should beat themselves up if they realize they do not know or cannot see in this area. Jesus said he came to give sight to the blind. Just go to Jesus and ask for clearer vision. He loves us and is glad to give.

Thanks for posting.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I'm not confused

are you confused?

No, I left ALL religions and denominations behind, and, with the aforementioned filters I use:

Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.