Do you want to know the truth?

[KelbyofGod]

It’s my contention that everyone uses a filter.

That is actually my belief as well.

Some are correct while others are incorrect and vice versa.

I can only mostly agree on this part. I believe that as long as we're still operating under "now I know in part" our filters are only partially correct. Some more than others. But we all still have need for testing and adapting OUR OWN filters whenever error is found.

Love in Jesus,
Thanks.

 

[KelbyofGod]

I am doing other things, plus posting and researching for other threads as well

I check back occasionally

Thanks for the honest reply. That also is completely acceptable.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Wansvic]

I did a search of your posts using the word baptism, and many came up
that seem to contradict what you have said here, like the following:

"KelbyofGod, post: 4632682,
Well, I was actually hoping to put some prayer into it to see if God would grant an answer that gets us past the 'pass' or 'fail-and-i-write-you-off' nature of your question, but I guess a sufficient answer might be "Because baptism began as, and remains, the mechanism established by God for remission of sins (to those that believe)... and because remission of sins is a necessary element of salvation, YES, I believe baptism is necessary, not optional, if a person would like to claim the fullness of salvation." But Jesus didn't just die to grant us remission of sins...so unless people get the rest, they still can't claim fullness of salvation, even if they've gotten their sins washed away.

That should at least make my position on water baptism clear, and give you enough information that you could dig further IF you really want to know.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby


Just adding words of Jesus here:
This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Matthew 26:28

You may want to reread the quote you presented. It does not say what you are implying. No need to get water baptized before receiving the Holy Ghost according to the word. Some get it before, some after.

 

[iTheophilus]

Denominational Teachings is indeed a filter some people use. When presented with information (even from the bible) they say to themselves "What do my Denominational Teachings allow me to believe about this information?"

Another person may have the Personal Belief that "there is no God". When presented with information (even from the bible) they would filter that information through the filter of "there is no God".

Any specific Ideology would of course be another example of a filter.

Part of my intent is to make people aware of their filters... especially their religious filters... and then be able to test them for usefulness and accuracy.

Is that a little clearer?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Not really. You seem to be trying to make what’s clear unclear. God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Magenta]

Thanks for the honest reply. That also is completely acceptable.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

You are welcome. I have nothing against you personally, and have witnessed your love of God and others in more than a few of your replies, and really do respect that I am curious, though, to know your view on this, you you do seem to have made it quite clear I do disagree that water baptism is necessary for the fullness of salvation. Water is used interchangeably in Scripture in a number of places with the giving of life, for instance:

And God said, “Let the waters teem with living creatures, and
let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.”

Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to sanctify her, cleansing her
by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to Himself as a
glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless.

I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from
all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts
sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my
song; he also is become my salvation. Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.

For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of
living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water
that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

I do not believe it is earthly water being referred to except for the first instance
regarding physical life. Yes, water is necessary for earthly life. But the water spoken
of in relation to Spiritual life is something else again.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Not really. You seem to be trying to make what’s clear unclear. God is not the author of confusion.

Sorry. Confusion is not my intent.

I wish you well,
Kelby

 

[JohnDB]

Almost everyone who comes here has a doctrine through which information is filtered. But do they have a way to test if their filter is accurate?

(NO, it's NOT enough to ask others with the same filter "Do you think our doctrine is correct?" because who would answer "Well, No, we've been teaching you a lie this whole time." )

What is needed is a test that you can apply to yourself, and answer for yourself in the privacy of your own heart where only God is a witness. That way you can be completely and embarrassingly honest.

The test is this: Who in your church has the Holy Ghost, and who does not? (Does your filter allow you to discern? <-- and I mean for SURE, not "I think so". )

The bible says that "if any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is NONE of His". So it is very important to know. (If you want to choose your teachers wisely.)

And there is an even more important reason that you need to be honest with yourself and able to answer that question… specifically, you are also in that church.

I'll be blunt here. If your filter is flawed, it's still flawed when you use it on yourself.

If you discover your filter is flawed, you have the option of facing that truth...or trying to bury it. How you handle it is one of the things that determines "Do you WANT to know the truth?".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The real question then by what you have described is: "Do I want to know what you believe is the truth?

Do I care?

Is what you preach violate the very basics of God's nature?

Why has God empowered you when He has obviously empowered so many others?

Why can't God's people ever be taught to feed themselves instead of the regurgitation of predigested nonsense that usually comes around?

What's so wrong with what I believe now? After all I am risking my immortal soul on it.

 

[Mem]

I think everyone uses filters, if you think it as a sort of an air filter, and there's no getting around having to use one with all the 'airflow' whirling around. For example, I noted how two perspectives can, indeed, be extracted from 1 Peter 2:8b, "They stumble because they disobey the word--and to this they were appointed."

One may say what (they think) 'this' is clearly speaking of but.... although 'they' is clearly the subject, what is 'this' actually' referring back to, stumbling or disobeying the word? It is my opinion that anyone that says, 'this' clearly refers to one thing or another, without at least one or two additional supporting examples, is going strictly by a particular doctrinal filter.

 

[JohnDB]

You are welcome. I have nothing against you personally, and have witnessed your love of God and others in more than a few of your replies, and really do respect that I am curious, though, to know your view on this, you you do seem to have made it quite clear I do disagree that water baptism is necessary for the fullness of salvation. Water is used interchangeably in Scripture in a number of places with the giving of life, for instance:

And God said, “Let the waters teem with living creatures, and
let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.”

Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to sanctify her, cleansing her
by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to Himself as a
glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless.

I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from
all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts
sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my
song; he also is become my salvation. Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.

For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of
living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water
that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

I do not believe it is earthly water being referred to except for the first instance
regarding physical life. Yes, water is necessary for earthly life. But the water spoken
of in relation to Spiritual life is something else again.

From my studies "water" in it's various forms was always some form of rule or law... which can be anything from a practice of habit, a bit of tradition, all the way to a capital law of the Ten Commandments.

And as always, after man has used it, it flows into the sea...a place of chaos.

 

[KelbyofGod]

You are welcome. I have nothing against you personally, and have witnessed your love of God and others in more than a few of your replies, and really do respect that I am curious, though, to know your view on this, you you do seem to have made it quite clear I do disagree that water baptism is necessary for the fullness of salvation. Water is used interchangeably in Scripture in a number of places with the giving of life, for instance:

And God said, “Let the waters teem with living creatures, and
let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.”

Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to sanctify her, cleansing her
by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to Himself as a
glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless.

I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from
all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts
sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my
song; he also is become my salvation. Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.

For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of
living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water
that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

I do not believe it is earthly water being referred to. Yes, water is necessary for earthly life.
But the water spoken of in relation to Spiritual life is something else again.

First, I appreciate your appreciation. (as silly as that sounds). I see kindness and love in many of your posts as well.

Secondly, I love the rainbow of scriptures you present on the topic. That wide array brings up the question "How many of them are (unarguably) relating to water baptism and/or remission of sins?" I haven't considered all of them in that light so I may exclude some of them in my answers. But you're welcome to ask about any single one and I'll do my best to answer honestly, even if my answer is "I don't see how that relates to baptism or remission (except that there is a 'refreshing' that is inherent to every kind of deliverance)"

If you'll allow the slowness of thorough examination, I'll try to answer completely.

But I'll volunteer this much to speed things along:
There are at least TWO parts to salvation. One is not more important than the other.

If you think otherwise, I'l start proving that YOU already know it.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

Why can't God's people ever be taught to feed themselves instead of the regurgitation of predigested nonsense that usually comes around?

Thank-you JESUS! That is the right response! When will people be taught how to go to the Father and learn directly from him? Without that, the people do not have the ability to answer the next question...

What's so wrong with what I believe now? After all I am risking my immortal soul on it.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Aerials1978]

That is actually my belief as well. I can only mostly agree on this part. I believe that as long as we're still operating under "now I know in part" our filters are only partially correct. Some more than others. But we all still have need for testing and adapting OUR OWN filters whenever error is found.

Love in Jesus,
Thanks.

Agreed. I myself perceive things through a narrow lens and need to affirm if what I am perceiving to be actuality or my own biased notion. I admit there are somethings that are beyond my understanding not matter how I try and validated it.

 

[KelbyofGod]

FYI, I've gotta nap. I look forward to reading the replies. Thank you all for considering godly topics.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Magenta]

First, I appreciate your appreciation. (as silly as that sounds). I see kindness and love in many of your posts as well.

Secondly, I love the rainbow of scriptures you present on the topic. That wide array brings up the question "How many of them are (unarguably) relating to water baptism and/or remission of sins?" I haven't considered all of them in that light so I may exclude some of them in my answers. But you're welcome to ask about any single one and I'll do my best to answer honestly, even if my answer is "I don't see how that relates to baptism or remission (except that there is a 'refreshing' that is inherent to every kind of deliverance)"

If you'll allow the slowness of thorough examination, I'll try to answer completely.

But I'll volunteer this much to speed things along:
There are at least TWO parts to salvation. One is not more important than the other.

If you think otherwise, I'l start proving that YOU already know it.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Those verses were given largely to show how water does not always mean earthly H2O

An idea that is perhaps most clearly conveyed in the words of Jesus when He said,

"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water
that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."

Clearly Jesus made a distinction between earthly well water and the water He gives.

... by the washing with water through the word.

I feel a need to add that ceremonial cleansing water was turned into wine in the first recorded miracle of Jesus in the gospel of John... wine which later comes to represent the shed righteous blood of Jesus in the Lord's supper.

 

[Magenta]

FYI, I've gotta nap.

Ah, ha ha! I was just gonna say the same thing! See you later

PS~ I hope you have a nice restful and rejuvenating nap

 

[Nehemiah6]

Kelby does NOT believe that a person needs to be water baptized in order to receive the Holy Spirit.

Here is what you have said some time back: "If someone believes that baptism is a non-essential ritual, THEY should NOT be baptizing because they are NOT sent of God to baptize. Why do I say this? Because to say otherwise would be saying that God's calling on their life is non-essential. "

So are you not promoting the idea that baptism is necessary for salvation, and that there can be no salvation without the gift of the Holy Spirit through baptism?

 

[KelbyofGod]

Here is what you have said some time back: "If someone believes that baptism is a non-essential ritual, THEY should NOT be baptizing because they are NOT sent of God to baptize. Why do I say this? Because to say otherwise would be saying that God's calling on their life is non-essential. "

So are you not promoting the idea that baptism is necessary for salvation, and that there can be no salvation without the gift of the Holy Spirit through baptism?

I am saying that Water baptism is necessary.
I am saying that Spirit baptism is necessary.

I am saying that they are not the same thing.
I am saying that they do not accomplish the same thing. (each accomplishes something that the other does NOT accomplish)

I am saying that water baptism CAN come first (but doesn't always) Acts 8:12-17 gives an example of water baptism coming first.
I am saying that Spirit baptism CAN come first (but doesn't always) Acts 10:44-48 gives an example of spirit baptism coming first.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Almost everyone who comes here has a doctrine through which information is filtered. But do they have a way to test if their filter is accurate?

(NO, it's NOT enough to ask others with the same filter "Do you think our doctrine is correct?" because who would answer "Well, No, we've been teaching you a lie this whole time." )

What is needed is a test that you can apply to yourself, and answer for yourself in the privacy of your own heart where only God is a witness. That way you can be completely and embarrassingly honest.

The test is this: Who in your church has the Holy Ghost, and who does not? (Does your filter allow you to discern? <-- and I mean for SURE, not "I think so". )

The bible says that "if any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is NONE of His". So it is very important to know. (If you want to choose your teachers wisely.)

And there is an even more important reason that you need to be honest with yourself and able to answer that question… specifically, you are also in that church.

I'll be blunt here. If your filter is flawed, it's still flawed when you use it on yourself.

If you discover your filter is flawed, you have the option of facing that truth...or trying to bury it. How you handle it is one of the things that determines "Do you WANT to know the truth?".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

seems a lot simpler do you want to know the truth ?

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭

Walah! Pretty simple just believe in Jesus and accept the gospel he preached and believe ! It was why he was sent after all

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s really about hearing the words of Christ and believing because that is Gods truth . Seems as if we can’t do that any other form of doctrine or “filter “ we come up with is. It going to be the truth because Jesus already laid out the truth for all mankind and said “ whoever believes the truth is going to be saved “

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Simplicity believe Jesus and know the truth

 

[iTheophilus]

Almost everyone who comes here has a doctrine through which information is filtered. But do they have a way to test if their filter is accurate?

(NO, it's NOT enough to ask others with the same filter "Do you think our doctrine is correct?" because who would answer "Well, No, we've been teaching you a lie this whole time." )

What is needed is a test that you can apply to yourself, and answer for yourself in the privacy of your own heart where only God is a witness. That way you can be completely and embarrassingly honest.

The test is this: Who in your church has the Holy Ghost, and who does not? (Does your filter allow you to discern? <-- and I mean for SURE, not "I think so". )

The bible says that "if any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is NONE of His". So it is very important to know. (If you want to choose your teachers wisely.)

And there is an even more important reason that you need to be honest with yourself and able to answer that question… specifically, you are also in that church.

I'll be blunt here. If your filter is flawed, it's still flawed when you use it on yourself.

If you discover your filter is flawed, you have the option of facing that truth...or trying to bury it. How you handle it is one of the things that determines "Do you WANT to know the truth?".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

. . . . .
The WORD OF GOD should be the only filter we use. We should filter everything we hear through His Word, the Bibl.e. ….and this is why we are instructed to study the Bible:

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15 (NKJV)
. . . . .
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. - 1 John 4:1-6 (NKJV)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

. . . . .
The WORD OF GOD should be the only filter we use. We should filter everything we hear through His Word, the Bibl.e. ….and this is why we are instructed to study the Bible:

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15 (NKJV)
. . . . .
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. - 1 John 4:1-6 (NKJV)

amen to that the Bible explains itself