A golden key to understand the book of Revelations

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying. It's you opinion it should start this way based on the RSV title of the book. It's not in the Greek. Not being critical, just like to be precise.

I agree it's to John; I just don't agree it should read this way.

Look here the church will not be here, after chapter 4 John hears a voice saying come up here and he is taken into heaven, from there on he is watching from heaven which is where the church will be.

The rest of the book concerns the then converted Jews and God's dealings with the nations.

It never is Sunday in 1. Corinth. 11. I would remind you that the apostolic tradition was to break bread daily.

Look here the church will not be here, after chapter 4 John hears a voice saying come up here and he is taken into heaven, from there on he is watching from heaven which is where the church will be.

It's vital to emphasize that John was the one who was commanded to "come up hither," not the church!

What is the mark of the beast?

Try reading my post again, for you certainly DON'T understand it, for I'm NOT saying or implying that it refers to "Sunday" in 1Cor 11!

As regards:



From your OP, to make Rev 4v1 into a (secret) pre-tribulation advent and rapture is just unbelievable, for you've completely twisted this Scripture out of all recognition in attempt to support your destructive heresy of a (secret) pre-tribulation advent and rapture! 2Peter 3v16

You obviously treat Our Lord's warning in Rev 22v18,19 with complete contempt!

The Lord Jesus says that it is only false prophets and teachers who will teach a (secret) pre-tribulation advent and rapture, and His teaching is that He will come in glory AFTER the Great Tribulation! Matt 24v23-31, Titus 2v13, Acts 1v9-12 with Zech 14v4.

I disagree.

Define "church" and define "converted Jew" and then show me where in scripture you are deriving these definitions.

Ahh, okay. I got hung up on the first part and missed what you said after that.

I only have one question. What makes you so sure Revelation 4:1 is the rapture? I know a lot of people sincerely believe it, but what's the clincher that settles it for you?

When we read the book of Revelation, it's important to remember that our Lord took John spiritually into the future (this is prophecy), and many of the events he describes have yet to happen in real time, despite the fact that he witnessed them.

The real point I am making is that the book being a prophecy concerning the period of time known as the day of the Lord does not really concern the church for the church will have gone. This is why I believe christians have such a difficulty in interpreting it.

Do christians have difficulties interpreting the revelation? ... yes indeedee, you can't find 2 christians to agree upon anything. Some don't even believe it is scripture.

And yet christians forsake the plain and clear prophecies that are given in the open scriptures in favour of interpretations [usually dubious] found in the revelation,

Every single thing the church needs to know concerning the end times right up to and including the Rapture is there in the open and plain scriptures ... after the Rap we don't need anything for we shall be with the Lord.

The church also struggles with chapters in Daniel which concern the Jews after the church is gone and chapters 40 onwards of Ezekiel.

Mebbe [apart from devotional value] the Holy Spirit does not teach it. When the disciples asked Jesus about the setting up of the kingdom in Jerusalem He said that is not for you to know, your job is to bear witness of Me.

The church is no more mentioned after that as being on earth, they are mentioned as being in heaven having come out of great tribulation.

The book came without a title, the title was added to it. The opening line should read: The revelation to John, the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him [John] to show unto His servants and He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John.

I do not believe in a secret pretrib rapture. You need to differentiate between tribulation which comes from the world "in the world you will have tribulation" and God's wrath. God is pledged not to pour His wrath upon the righteous and the unrighteous alike.

We will be taken out, what is left of the church after the great end-time persecution aka the great tribulation.

The pretrib rapture will not be "secret." it will be very loud. And all the world will know that SOMETHING happened: all the children will be gone.

The real point I am making is that the book being a prophecy concerning the period of time known as the day of the Lord does not really concern the church for the church will have gone. This is why I believe christians have such a difficulty in interpreting it.

The church is no more mentioned after that as being on earth, they are mentioned as being in heaven having come out of great tribulation.

"After the tribulation of those days .... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send His angels forth to gather His elect from the four winds of heaven."

"After the tribulation of those days .... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send His angels forth to gather His elect from the four winds of heaven."

Why would you want to change the words of Scripture? So to get back to the actual words, this is what we see: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him [Jesus Christ], to shew unto His [Christ's] servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John:

Both the Critical Text and the Received Text have exactly the same words and the same syntax as translated above:
CRITICAL TEXT
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ Θεός, δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ, τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάνῃ,
RECEIVED TEXT
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεός δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ

The meaning should be plain to all.

1. God the Father gave this Revelation to the Lord Jesus Christ, His Son.
2. Christ gave that revelation to His angel (possibly Gabriel, who also visited Daniel).
3. That angel conveyed the Revelation to John.
4. John passed it on to the servants of Christ.
5. Now this Revelation is accessible to the whole world.
6. However, only those who possess the Holy Spirit will understand what it means.