What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

Thank you.
I'm so glad he knows us down to the very last hair on our heads.
The only universalism I count is when praying for All, whosoever will come and be saved!

God always has an answer and lovingly gives direction for every step we take.
He will guide you in your search and keep your loved ones safe.

Yeah you sort of made my point there of what I was saying but since you claim to have addressed the scripture I shared with you and I seems to have missed your response please answer this

“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation;

and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:

and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how can they never have rest and be tormented in the presence of God forever if they just cease to exist ?

and again who is this ?

“And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how is that happening if they don’t exist anymore ?

And then

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬


what’s the resurrection of damnation ?

just a couple of questions there because i seemed to have missed all
Of your responses to those scriptures

don’t see the point at all in this response are you referring to the story of the rich man and Lazarus ? It’s a teaching about the afterlife not a historical account of someone a teaching from Jesus about the two destinations after we die

If you say it is a 'teaching about the afterlife'--since the point of Jesus parables are a 'made up' story pointing at a spiritual lesson, what is the spiritual lesson he is telling about the afterlife? If it's a parable we know that it is not about the characteristics of heaven and hell.

I've asked several times for the ECT side to site LITERAL verses instead of these figurative ones. The worm and fire do not go out the verses says, on CORPSES--a corpse/ carcass is as we all know, a dead body. therefore the worm and fire are figurative not literal. If a worm were never to die and a fire were never to go out, then the thing it consumes would be completely obliterated!

Also you site the verse, 'those who worship the beast"--its important to note it says worship not worshipped. At the end of the age God is going to send fire on the earth, just as he did on Sodom and Gomorrah. It is not referring to the lake of fire.

"Pangs and agony will seize them; they will be in anguish like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at one another; their faces will be aflame."--Isaiah 13: 7-8

“I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that it were already kindled!"--Luke 12:49


If you are so certain that ECT is THE true fate of the unbeliever please site for us 10 verses from both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT that use literal and not figurative language. I have requested this several times and no one on the ECT has been able to do this.

Damnation: other words used are condemnation, punishment. It is the same as Eternal Fire/Punishment/Destruction.

ALL Literal verses in scripture say the wicked/unbeliever PERISH/DIE/ARE DESTROYED/BE NO MORE/ AS IF THEY NEVER WERE--there are 100s--more than 100s that state this in literal language.

And please tell me--how do these in eternal torment live, since the GIFT of Eternal Life is only given to the believer?

Revelation tells us four times what the Lake of Fire is--the Second DEATH.

I say this over and over and over again--Scripture NEVER contradicts itself. We must always look at Scripture as a whole--false doctrine originates from the isolation of verses.

I guarantee you, if you are indeed a Christian and you pray with a sincere heart, "Father, I don't want to believe anything that a pastor tells me or a book or an apologist--I want to know the TRUTH of your Word--please take the scales off my eyes and reveal it to me." He will do it.

And the other side is apparently seeing the opposite in scripture, "Those who are far from you will not perish; you will not destroy all who are unfaithful to you."

Of course there are those who will dismiss this as unimportant OT scripture despite NT scripture that promises the same thing.

Pilgrim you said: our spiritual connection to God has always been < this is false see verse below--because we and all that lives came from Gods spirit the creator who was before all thkngs we only later corrupted everything it’s how he knows our inner thkngs <what does this mean?

"However that which is spiritual was not first, but that which is natural, and afterward that which is spiritual."--1st Corinthians 15:45

I will again state a spirit does not exist without the body. All verses you cited have to do with the spirit in the inner man, not a disembodied spirit--the spirit body we receive at the resurrection is a body that can be known as we are known now--we will still be us, just with a new glorified body--without pain receptors or the physicality of a human body.

yeah that verse doesn’t mean that

he’s saying God first made mans body and then breathed his spirit of life into him

first God formed mans natural body , and then God breathed his living spirit into him it’s the same design for all creation first it was made and then God gave life

look

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so I agree first came the natural then the spirit

why do you suppose mankind was dwelling with and communing with God in Eden because we had no connection to God who is a spirit ? Doesn’t make any sense

Do you really believe man didn’t have a living spirit until the gospel ? I’ve never heard that one before but if you look in the beginning mankind had a direct connection to God dwelt in his presence without shame and then later sinned and was cast out into our state of separation because of sin

you guys should do some more studying before you claim fallacy from others

What you said was false--the spirit has NOT ALWAYS BEEN. No one needs to study to know that.

Also, where are you getting that we believe that man didn't have a spirit before the gospel--no one has said that.

You are also quoting scriptures that say nothing of man's spirit, only his creation. One is regarding God's spirit--that has nothing to do with man's spirit.

PLease re-read my message--I quoted the verse about dividing SOUL and SPIRIT. Also Genesis says plainly God breathed into man the breath of life and he became a LIVING SOUL.

I'm sorry Pilgrim, but you don't seem to notice that our arguments are solidly based on Scripture--not our own ideas.

Please read all of 1st Corinthians--it is made plain here and throughout the scriptures that ONLY believers will be raised with imperishable bodies, NOT unbelievers! These verses are clearly referring to believers!

Here is just a portion:

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]

Hey Pilgrimshope,

Notice that this is a warning that goes out to the world (Rev 14) BEFORE the Wrath of God is poured out on those who take the mark.


Rev 15:1; 16:1-2
15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.


Twice the 7 last vials/bowls are called the wrath of God, poured out on those alive on the earth who have the mark of the beast.

- Boils and sores
- sealife dies
- freshwater corrupted
- sun scorches and fires
- darkness; tongue-gnawing pain
- eastern kings prepared; deception
- thunders, lightning, great hail

No one could have any semblance of rest living through all of this day by day...

Pilgrim, you said: "even animals have a spirit."

This is false. Animals have a soul--that is emotion, mind, and will, they do not, however, have a SPIRIT--that part that is given the ability to understand, interact, and respond to God.

III.1. DO ANIMALS HAVE A SPIRIT?

Answer: The Word of God lets us know that animals have a soul, but not a spirit. The soul is the seat of the emotions and appetites, whereas the spirit is the seat of one’s intelligence. 1 Corinthians 2:11 states,
In Job 32:8 we are told,
Now, notice Psalm 32:9,
Animals act on their emotions and appetites by instinct. Upon death, the body and soul of an animal cease to exist. By this I do not mean that animals have no value, and we should not be considerate of them. To the contrary, since this life is all an animal has, God wants us to be kind to animals. Proverbs 12:10 tells us," A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast."
God wanted mankind to live eternally so He could have fellowship with thinking beings. Man’s sin made that impossible, separating us from God. Therefore, Jesus Christ came to this Earth, died on the Cross and was resurrected to pay for our sins. Death for an animal is the end. Death of a person is just the beginning of their eternal life, either in Heaven or in Hell.

https://heritagebbc.com/bible-question-and-answer-archive-1/iii-1-do-animals-have-a-spirit/

Ecc.3:21 says that man has a SPIRIT that goes upwards, and the beasts have SPITITS that go downwatds so I did agree with the source you've quoted..


I'll trust the word of God over the words of man every time!

* edit* not was left out.

“Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward,

and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭

Everything that lives and has flesh has a spirit inside

“Let the Lord, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭27:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God made a covenant with the creatures also not just mankind but I’m sure “ that’s false too “ because you may not have noticed it doesn’t make something false you should instead inquire with someone before you claim fallacy I could have shown you the scriptures so you didn’t make another claim of fallacy




the Bible’s a pretty large book and says a lot you should consider maybe you haven’t exactly understood every single thing in it or maybe haven’t read a lot of things in it . Next time you don’t agree with someone instead of claiming fallacy ask why they believe that and maybe they could show you scriptire of why

I find this discussion between you and I fruitless though so I’m gonna move on from it there’s no benefit in arguing

another point is a soul isn’t a possession it’s who we are it’s when a spirit inhabits a body

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a living soul is a living creature

The problem is most people aren't trusting in God's word--unbeknownst to them, the are believing what they've been taught and not investigating scripture for themselves.

Just a thought for your approbation:

God is able to have a mere bush burn in the fire of His glory and not be consumed.

And you say that God cannot inflict the wrath of His vengeance in eternal punishment of fire upon His enemies and THEY not be consumed?