What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

Pilgrimshope · Nov 6, 2021

L

lol 😁

dear sister we simply are at different points of understanding on this matter and we are doing nothing but arguing both of us I’m not saying it’s your fault

but my point is it’s okay we don’t have to “win” we can just let both of our points sit in both of our hearts and actually consider what the other said all through our discussion and maybe well both learn something ?

Let’s just let the growing animosity go now together and hopefully find agreement elsewhere in another discussion.

this place could be a great benefit if we could state opinions and ideas from scripture like we always do everyone offers thoer take and thoughts and then if we could not see it is a competition or argument of as if the person is against us and see it as bunch of believers who are all at different points of what they know , what it means to them , how they understand it

then we could maybe find reasons to let grace sort of rule the hearts of people here d we could possibly all learn from just the open discussion .

For my part to you I’m not against you it’s just Christians searching for better understanding discussing what they think scripture means , what God has taught them in thier unique life experience with him . I’ve never meant to insult you or your beliefs but I’m just discussing with you my view .

I’m just a normal dude , not a pastor or teacher or wise man or seminary seeker or anything my view is just what I believe and have learned from scripture maybe you understand it better , that doesn’t matter to me but if we can just let this one sit and have no hard feelings between us because we believe a few different things we do both believe in Jesus that’s what’s most valuable and important

so thanks for the discussion sorry for any offense or anything I hope to find some agreement later God loves you and may he bless you indeed !!

Laura798 · Nov 6, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Dear Brother (thanks for calling me sis--that's such a blessing)

Agreed--and I have no hard feelings and I'm sorry if sometimes I am not as gracious as I should be. I love apologetics and I find when trying to make a point, I may see something I hadn't seen before--even if my mind isn't changed--there are always new discoveries to be made in His Word!

PS I've been out of work some time, but will, thankfully be back to work Monday! This was sort of a way for me to 'feel' as if I was doing something---also even if it's disagreement--it was at least connection--CA is much stricter than other parts of the country I'm afraid. But I'm sure some of my time here could've been better spent elsewhere.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 6, 2021

Laura798 said:

thenks for the blessing of the response yes I hope you don’t disappear though

I think honestly sister all we really
Need to “ do “ is just be the best person and blessing to others in our real life as we can be and he’s I understand about time this place is great for discussion I wish it were more peaceful though and a bit more grace was over all
Of us discussion is great to grow in understanding because we get to consider thoughts we may not have had about scriptire or whatever but arguing really sort of drains the spirit a bit for me at least and I partake in it too is what drains me lol so I’m not excluding myself

but anyways sis thanks for the good spirit and Conversation also I’ve read your posts in Other threads before and agree on a lot with you on other subjects so I’m glad theres No hard feelings between us I hate that lol

God bless and thanks

Laura798 · Nov 6, 2021

Okay, ya'll homey's THIS is what you need to watch to get with it--now you're gonna learn some scripture--WE OUT!

Laura798 · Nov 6, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

RE: Animals having a spirit--and I'm not being facetious-- this thought came to mind --there is nothing more forgiving than an animal--and the love I've seen animals demonstrate to humans and other animals I find quite extraordinary (enjoy watching pet videos). Well, I'm beginning to wonder--not of course if they could receive salvation, but if somehow they have a connection with God. We know dogs have rescued humans- warning them of danger or protecting from an attack and they can even train them to be an assistant to those with health issues. They also rescue other animals. I have heard stories of both seals and porpoises saving humans from drowning or shark attacks.

How do they know how to do this? It cannot be merely instinct. In any case, I am rethinking my position.

Gardenias · Nov 6, 2021

Laura798 said:

Dear Brother (thanks for calling me sis--that's such a blessing)

Agreed--and I have no hard feelings and I'm sorry if sometimes I am not as gracious as I should be. I love apologetics and I find when trying to make a point, I may see something I hadn't seen before--even if my mind isn't changed--there are always new discoveries to be made in His Word!

PS I've been out of work some time, but will, thankfully be back to work Monday! This was sort of a way for me to 'feel' as if I was doing something---also even if it's disagreement--it was at least connection--CA is much stricter than other parts of the country I'm afraid. But I'm sure some of my time here could've been better spent elsewhere.

PTL..........
Hi ho hi ho,it off to work you go!
Amen
He is ever faithful!

ewq1938 · Nov 6, 2021

Laura798 said:

They do have a spirit according to scripture:

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath [ru^ach]; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

What befalls the flesh of animals will also befall the flesh of man. Animals and man have the same breath! Breath here is ru^ach meaning spirit!

(YLT) For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.

Animals and man have one spirit (one spirit to all) meaning the same spirit!

07307 ruwach {roo'-akh}

from 07306; TWOT - 2131a; n f

AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4,
vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378

1) wind, breath, mind, spirit

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The flesh of animals and man both go to the same place!

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The only difference is the spirit of man will go up to God while the spirit of an animal will go down. No resurrection for animals, no afterlife.

Laura798 · Nov 6, 2021

ewq1938 said:

They do have a spirit according to scripture:

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath [ru^ach]; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

What befalls the flesh of animals will also befall the flesh of man. Animals and man have the same breath! Breath here is ru^ach meaning spirit!

(YLT) For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.

Animals and man have one spirit (one spirit to all) meaning the same spirit!

07307 ruwach {roo'-akh}

from 07306; TWOT - 2131a; n f

AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4,
vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378

1) wind, breath, mind, spirit

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The flesh of animals and man both go to the same place!

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The only difference is the spirit of man will go up to God while the spirit of an animal will go down. No resurrection for animals, no afterlife.

Yes, see my other post. NASB call this spirit 'breath' which I think fits better in this particular context.

ewq1938 · Nov 6, 2021

Laura798 said:

What about other verse?

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Clearly this is an internal spirit which leaves the body at death. Man's goes up, an animal's goes down. Still proves that animals do have literal spirits. I just think you have the wrong definition and understanding of what a spirit is.

Laura798 · Nov 6, 2021

ewq1938 said:

What about other verse?

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Clearly this is an internal spirit which leaves the body at death. Man's goes up, an animal's goes down. Still proves that animals do have literal spirits. I just think you have the wrong definition and understanding of what a spirit is.

I also have another post about animal possibly having a spirit--

Laura798 · Nov 6, 2021

ewq1938 said:

Here's a good video that explains body soul and spirit--at first I thought it was a commercial because of his appearance, but he actually did a good job explaining this in a simple, straightforward way..

cv5 · Nov 7, 2021

I don't know how anyone can say that annihilation equals:

"the everlasting fire" Matthew 18:8, 25:41
"everlasting burnings" isa 33:14
"eternal fire" Jude 1:7
"eternal damnation" Mark 3:29

ewq1938 · Nov 7, 2021

cv5 said:

Only the fire is everlasting. The people are not.

Same verse has, "Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?" but you don't want to quote a verse that has devour in it do you? A devouring fire equals annihilation.

Isa 33:11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
Isa 33:12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
Isa 33:13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.
Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Only the fire is everlasting. The people are not.

Damnation means a judgment that has been made. That judgment will last forever. The judgement is death in eternal fire and that same fire will devour the people which proves annihilation..

Your own supplied verses prove annihilation is right and eternal torture wrong. That's expected from a 2.5-3 out of 10. You are wrong.

cv5 · Nov 7, 2021

ewq1938 said:

Oh I don't think so buddy....

Rev 14:9
A third angel followed the first two, declaring in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and takes the mark on his forehead or his hand,

Rev 14:10
that person will also drink of the wine of God's anger that has been mixed undiluted in the cup of his wrath, and he will be tortured with fire and sulfur in front of the holy angels and in front of the Lamb.

Rev 14:11
And the smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever, and those who worship the beast and his image will have no rest day or night, along with anyone who receives the mark of his name."

ewq1938 · Nov 7, 2021

cv5 said:

Doesn't say forever does it?

Again, nothing about anyone being tortured forever. You always use these same verses which do not support your theology. Why not study for ten more years and raise that biblical understanding rating to above 5 then come back and share what wisdom you have learned? As it is now, your understanding is lacking.

cv5 · Nov 23, 2021

The raising of those with died during the time of Jesus' ministry were perhaps more properly described as "resuscitations" FROM THE DEAD. Because all of them did indeed pass away again. Yes they died, yes Jesus made them alive, but they died again.

However....a RESURRECTION per se is eternal. It is a forever state of being. The first resurrection is the eternal state of abiding in Christ Jesus, His own resurrection being eternal as well.

The second resurrection is to eternal death, utterly divorced from the gracious presence of the Lord and the glory of His power.

2 Thes 1:9
They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might,

studentoftheword · Nov 24, 2021

I believe we all need to understand that we are first Spirit Beings ----we are made in God's image ---God is Spirit ----So being created in God's image means we are a TRI -Part Being -----We are a spirit being --we possess a soul and we live in a physical body -----

Our Spirit and Soul leave the Body and go before the Lord ------

Hebrews 4:12----
CEB
because God’s word is living, active, and sharper than any two-edged sword. It penetrates to the point that it separates the soul from the spirit and the joints from the marrow. It’s able to judge the heart’s thoughts and intentions.

So ask yourselves do Spirit beings become non existent ? ------Does God and Satan still exist ----

When we die our Spirit and Soul leaves the Body and goes somewhere -------

Where you go depends on YOU ----WE have free will to choose our eternal existence ----

You can choose eternal life through Faith in Jesus --or you can choose the 2nd death which is torment -

The scripture is clear ---we die once and then judgement comes ---there is no second chance -----and there is no annihilation ---don't buy into that lie -----

Hebrews 9:27 NIV
27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

I say
You will go somewhere when you die Folks ------you will either ascend upward or you will descend downward into the abyss ----and that is all up to us ------

Now we don't have to believe in a place of Torment or a place of Bliss --that doesn't mean they don't exist ---- Sinners cannot ever enter Heaven --and that is Biblical ---Sinners will go somewhere --but it's not heaven --Folks

Revelation 21 NIV

A New Heaven and a New Earth
27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

GRACE_ambassador · Dec 1, 2021

op: thoughts on annihilation?

The Most Absurd teaching I have Ever heard is, "death is ceasing to exist"
The LORD JESUS CHRIST (God The SON), did NO SUCH THING, When, In The
Flesh, HE (His Human Part) Died, His (Living/Conscious) Soul "Departed" From
His Body! At His Resurrection, His Soul And His Body Were Reunited!

Amen?

Magenta · Dec 1, 2021

cv5 said:

"Forever"

Apollumi

Magenta · Dec 1, 2021

studentoftheword said:

Do you then deny the coming day of the resurrection of all at the end of this age when all face judgment?

studentoftheword said:

If the Great White Throne Judgment does not take place in God's abode (heaven), where does it take place?

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a
shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on
His left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit
the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave Me
something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in,
36 I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give
You something to drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’ 40 And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever
you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’ 41 Then He will say to those on His left,
‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"

What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

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