REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY

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Roar

Roar

Active member
#141
Oct 14, 2021
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#141
Has this Prohecy yet been fullfilled?

Zechariah 14:16-21
New King James Version

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
Jocund said:
I still don't see why the timing would be assumed to be after a theoretical rapture. I don't see why those with a new spirit would not be interpreted as Jews that accepted the covenant of Christ (Christians). Even the OT speaks of the coming of a new covenant written on the hearts and minds.

The land given in Genesis 17:8 could be considered just Canaan, but I'm sure someone somewhere has interpreted this to be the entire world based on the phrasing. In the NT it is explained that the seed of the promise is counted only in Christ and those in Christ. It would be contrary to scripture to claim that any land promised would go to NonChristian Jews by right of that promise.

I imagine each of the three main Abrahamic religions, based on their religious texts, would have the ability to claim rights to whatever lands promised (if we indeed this is a description of a literal physical place).

If the interpetation is that the geographical location considered Canaan is the birthright of NonChristian Jews by the sake of the promise to Abraham, that interpretation contradicts scripture and is therefore incorrect. It is possible to claim it for other reasons but not by that cited OT scripture.

I imagine the interpetaton of post-rapture saved Jews (those that become Christian) requires a very specific model and interpretation of rapture. Rapture in itself is a can of worms that many don't agree on. What manner of rapture interpretation and second coming of Christ is being used in this case?
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Roar

Roar

Active member
#142
Oct 14, 2021
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#142
Jocund said:
I still don't see why the timing would be assumed to be after a theoretical rapture. I don't see why those with a new spirit would not be interpreted as Jews that accepted the covenant of Christ (Christians). Even the OT speaks of the coming of a new covenant written on the hearts and minds.

The land given in Genesis 17:8 could be considered just Canaan, but I'm sure someone somewhere has interpreted this to be the entire world based on the phrasing. In the NT it is explained that the seed of the promise is counted only in Christ and those in Christ. It would be contrary to scripture to claim that any land promised would go to NonChristian Jews by right of that promise.

I imagine each of the three main Abrahamic religions, based on their religious texts, would have the ability to claim rights to whatever lands promised (if we indeed this is a description of a literal physical place).

If the interpetation is that the geographical location considered Canaan is the birthright of NonChristian Jews by the sake of the promise to Abraham, that interpretation contradicts scripture and is therefore incorrect. It is possible to claim it for other reasons but not by that cited OT scripture.

I imagine the interpetaton of post-rapture saved Jews (those that become Christian) requires a very specific model and interpretation of rapture. Rapture in itself is a can of worms that many don't agree on. What manner of rapture interpretation and second coming of Christ is being used in this case?
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Yes, I believe you are blinded to the truth; the question is why? Does God lie? Does God change His mind like a man? If He does your faith is futile. You read Romans 11 but seem to lack understanding of the words spoken there. God set in motion a plan to save the souls of as many in Israel (Jews) as he can just as He did of the gentile nations yet you seem unwilling to see that as so many so called believing gentiles. We believe gentiles have no greater or lesser place than a believing Jew so why the animosity toward saving Jewish souls? Do they not merit saving as much as non-believing gentiles? DO you not BELIEVE the literal WORD OF GOD?

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E

Edify

Well-known member
#143
Jan 27, 2021
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#143
Jocund said:
There were those cut from the tree, and there were those grafted in. There were also Jewish Christians and their descendants that were never cut from the tree to begin with.
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I agree because the Bible says so:
Eph 2:11Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18For through him
 
Roar

Roar

Active member
#144
Oct 14, 2021
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#144
Jesus"s Second Coming is more than the END to the Tribulation but the re-establish of the newly Saved Remant Jews into their full Promised Land Kingdom as promised in God's Word from which Jesus will rule the Earth for the 1000 years as decribed in Revelation 19-20 from the Throne of David before the New Jerusalem and New Earth come as recorded in Revelation 21. God always fulfills His word!

Isaiah 55:11
New King James Version
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.


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Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#145
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#145
Jocund said:
What manner of rapture interpretation and second coming of Christ is being used in this case?
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OK. So if we keep the proper sequence of events in view (taking all Scripture into account), then it should become clear that the redemption and restoration of Israel is a FACT as far as God is concerned. So here is what we find in the Bible:
1. The completion of the Church
2. The Rapture
3. The Tribulation and reign of the Antichrist
4. The Great Tribulation
5. The Second Coming of Christ
6. The gathering of all Jews to Israel
7. The redemption and restoration of the twelve tribes
8. The settling of the tribes in Greater Israel
 
Roar

Roar

Active member
#146
Oct 14, 2021
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#146
I'm Not so sure as to as to 6 through 8.

I only know that scripture says:


Zechariah 12:10
New King James Version

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

and

Romans 11:26
New King James Version

26 And so all Israel will be [a]saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

Isaiah, Ezekiel, and other Prophets speak to this time making it much more complicated but this is the essence of it. There are several good Christain authors that go into great detail on the subject for anyone who cares to study the subject more.
 
Jocund

Jocund

Banned
#147
Jan 14, 2021
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#147
Nehemiah6 said:
OK. So if we keep the proper sequence of events in view (taking all Scripture into account), then it should become clear that the redemption and restoration of Israel is a FACT as far as God is concerned. So here is what we find in the Bible:
1. The completion of the Church
2. The Rapture
3. The Tribulation and reign of the Antichrist
4. The Great Tribulation
5. The Second Coming of Christ
6. The gathering of all Jews to Israel
7. The redemption and restoration of the twelve tribes
8. The settling of the tribes in Greater Israel
Click to expand...
I see the concept of restoration, but the question comes back to who is counted as all Israel and who inherits the promise which is explained in Romans 9. I don't see anything that would indicate it is anything other than those in Christ.

Do you have passages for each step in that breakdown?
 
Roar

Roar

Active member
#148
Oct 14, 2021
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#148
Jocund said:
I see the concept of restoration, but the question comes back to who is counted as all Israel and who inherits the promise which is explained in Romans 9. I don't see anything that would indicate it is anything other than those in Christ.

Do you have passages for each step in that breakdown?
Click to expand...


Mark 8:18
New King James Version
18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember?

I have offered more than enough scripture.
 
Roar

Roar

Active member
#149
Oct 14, 2021
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#149
It will all be settled upon Jesus Return on who is right and who is wrong! :)

As for me I plan on riding behind Jesus; I love riding horses having been raised around them. ;)
 
surfer14

surfer14

Banned
#150
Jul 9, 2020
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#150
Roar said:
You can tell people's ignorance when they refuse to discusss the TRUTH of History.
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Increasing font size doesn't make you any more correct. It just makes you more annoying. I suspect you know a lot less truth about ww2 than you think you do. First casualty in any war is the truth.
 
Roar

Roar

Active member
#152
Oct 14, 2021
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#152
surfer14 said:
Increasing font size doesn't make you any more correct. It just makes you more annoying. I suspect you know a lot less truth about ww2 than you think you do. First casualty in any war is the truth.
Click to expand...

So, do you agree or disagree with the to Christain authored book, " Our Hands are Stained with Blood: The Tragic Story of the Church and the Jewish People "by Michael L. Brown PhD?
 
Jocund

Jocund

Banned
#153
Jan 14, 2021
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#153
Roar said:
So, do you agree or disagree with the to Christain authored book, " Our Hands are Stained with Blood: The Tragic Story of the Church and the Jewish People "by Michael L. Brown PhD?
Click to expand...
I think the reasonable answer to that question is: "I'm not going to pay money to find out"

Roar said:
Christain
Click to expand...
 
Roar

Roar

Active member
#154
Oct 14, 2021
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#154
surfer14 said:
Increasing font size doesn't make you any more correct. It just makes you more annoying. I suspect you know a lot less truth about ww2 than you think you do. First casualty in any war is the truth.[/QUOTE

How true; a book: "When A Jew Rules the World: What the Bible Really Says about Israel in the Plan of God" by Joel Richardson
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J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#156
Sep 16, 2021
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#156
justbyfaith said:
It should be clear that salvation is not given to a Jew because of his descendancy from the patriarch Jacob.

A person can only be saved through faith in the Jewish Messiah; and if some Jew does not have such a faith, his descendancy from Jacob does not save him.

But if he places his faith in the Messiah that came from his own people, he is not excluded from the salvation that is offered in Christ for that he is a descendant of Jacob.

In fact, the gospel of Jesus Christ is offered "first to the Jew, and then to the Gentile." (Romans 1:16).

The olive tree (true Israel) in Romans 11, is the church (all who place their faith in Jesus as Messiah).

In the last days, all of Israel shall be saved through faith in Jesus as Messiah (Romans 11:26, Zechariah 12:10).

And while this gift will be given to all of Israel, it is not given to them because they are descended from Jacob; but because they will place their faith in their own Messiah.

While it is promised specifically to Israel that they will all be saved in the last days and therefore in that sense they will be saved because they are descendants of Jacob.

Their means of salvation being apart from trust in their own lineage; but through faith in Jesus.
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Roar

Roar

Active member
#158
Oct 14, 2021
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#158
Jocund said:
I think the reasonable answer to that question is: "I'm not going to pay money to find out"
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I think your answer speaks for itself. 'Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. ' The quote is most likely due to writer and philosopher George Santayana, and in its original form it read, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” Let it come to pass.
 
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