The Second Coming of Christ and the First Resurrection.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#81
Just curious, what is your belief of the OT saints? What time frame is their resurrection?
What bearing, for you, does that have on changing or altering - 1 Thessalonians 4?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,172
3,699
113
#82
What bearing, for you, does that have on changing or altering - 1 Thessalonians 4?
I think it's obvious that the wording of Revelation 20 concerning the first resurrection is inclusive to the tribulation context. It certainly is not the first resurrection in scripture.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#83
Those that are saved/born again comprise the Bride of Christ. Ephesians 5:25-27. Secondly, or right now those that are saved/born again are "Betrothed" to Christ, or engaged but not yet married. Does that make sense?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
AGREE - Anyone who is in Christ, Born Again by His Blood and the Holy Spirit instantly become His Bride.

Now, in the Light of Scripture which cannot lie - dwell on that and ask your self - Are there two Gospels? are the two Brides of Christ?

One Gospel with pre-trib in it just for a tiny group before His Second Coming and then there must be another Gospel for the Tribulation Saints who do not QUALIFY for pre-trib rapture.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#84
I think it's obvious that the wording of Revelation 20 concerning the first resurrection is inclusive to the tribulation context. It certainly is not the first resurrection in scripture.
YES, and why do you think that the wording is focused on those who were killed by the antichrist?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#85
I would love to stay and help if the danger were not so great to me spiritually.

If anyone doesn't take the mark, number, or name of the Beast, they will have their head chopped off...so from that point on they will not be able to help with things anyway.

But if someone doesn't get their head chopped off in that time, their allegiance is to the Beast.

So, whatever they do will not be of any eternal value except to satan...in bringing about the condemnation of many.
You said: "I would love to stay and help if the danger were not so great to me spiritually."

What do you mean by this???
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#86
I do believe that the imminency of Christ's return is a scriptural doctrine.

If it is definitely post-trib or pre-wrath/mid-trib, then Christ cannot come in the rapture until a few things first take place.
The One Thing that MUST and WILL take place BEFORE the rapture is the FIRST RESURRECTION.

Anyone who says no is an outright LIAR against 1 Thessalonians 4.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,172
3,699
113
#87
YES, and why do you think that the wording is focused on those who were killed by the antichrist?
Not part of the body of Christ...Jews during the tribulation.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#88
Not part of the body of Christ...Jews during the tribulation.
So you just add to Scripture what it does not say to create a false teaching/doctrine.

This is classic pre-trib error - add to and take away from Scripture to mold it to the false doctrine.

Who is teaching you to do this? Not the Holy Spirit.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Prov 30: 5-6
I think it's obvious that the wording of Revelation 20 concerning the first resurrection is inclusive to the tribulation context. It certainly is not the first resurrection in scripture.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#89
Not part of the body of Christ...Jews during the tribulation.
How many Second Comings of our Lord Jesus Christ are there? - according to Scripture.

How many First Resurrections are there? according to 1 Thess 4 and Revelation 20

IMPORTANT: The Second Coming of the LORD brings with Him all the Saints who are in Heaven with Him now and all who will be killed up to the Day when He returns = 1 Thessalonians 4
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,172
3,699
113
#90
So you just add to Scripture what it does not say to create a false teaching/doctrine.

This is classic pre-trib error - add to and take away from Scripture to mold it to the false doctrine.

Who is teaching you to do this? Not the Holy Spirit.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Prov 30: 5-6
Whete did I add to scripture? Btw, most of the time you don’t even use scripture. But that’s another thread.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,172
3,699
113
#91
How many Second Comings of our Lord Jesus Christ are there? - according to Scripture.

How many First Resurrections are there? according to 1 Thess 4 and Revelation 20

IMPORTANT: The Second Coming of the LORD brings with Him all the Saints who are in Heaven with Him now and all who will be killed up to the Day when He returns = 1 Thessalonians 4
Two advents in Scripture, but the Lord never steps foot on earth during the rapture. The rapture is not an advent. Your problem might be not properly rightly dividing the body of Christ from the nation of Israel.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#92
I think it's obvious that the wording of Revelation 20 concerning the first resurrection is inclusive to the tribulation context. It certainly is not the first resurrection in scripture.
Does "by the word of the Lord" have any significance to you?

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ says: the error of pre-trib rapture will by NO MEANS OCCUR
for dead in Christ will rise FIRST
AFTER that the rapture of the remaining/alive Saints get "caught up"

How have you no fear of God to add to or take away from His words?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#93
Whete did I add to scripture? Btw, most of the time you don’t even use scripture. But that’s another thread.
False accusation.
i pu forth the foundation of this thread on Scripture and i also have continually posted Scripture or at least reference to it.
Here is the foundation of TRUTH for the Resurrection and rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4 and 2 Thess 2 and Matt 24 & 25 and 1 John 2:18 and Daniel 7 and Revelation.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,172
3,699
113
#94
How many Second Comings of our Lord Jesus Christ are there? - according to Scripture.

How many First Resurrections are there? according to 1 Thess 4 and Revelation 20

IMPORTANT: The Second Coming of the LORD brings with Him all the Saints who are in Heaven with Him now and all who will be killed up to the Day when He returns = 1 Thessalonians 4
The resurrection is equated to the harvest in scripture. A harvest has three parts, first fruits, the main harvest, and the gleanings.

First fruits = Christ and the OT saints
Main harvest = the body of Christ, the church
Gleanings = tribulation saints
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#95
Two advents in Scripture, but the Lord never steps foot on earth during the rapture. The rapture is not an advent. Your problem might be not properly rightly dividing the body of Christ from the nation of Israel.
Adding to Scripture again.

His Second Coming is the most spectacular EVENT of World HISTORY - wow
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#96
The resurrection is equated to the harvest in scripture. A harvest has three parts, first fruits, the main harvest, and the gleanings.

First fruits = Christ and the OT saints
Main harvest = the body of Christ, the church
Gleanings = tribulation saints
And your three parts here overide Scripture - 'adding to and taking away from God's words"

Do you not realize what Proverbs 30: 5-6 and Revelation 22: 18-19 are saying to you?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#97
The resurrection is equated to the harvest in scripture. A harvest has three parts, first fruits, the main harvest, and the gleanings.

First fruits = Christ and the OT saints
Main harvest = the body of Christ, the church
Gleanings = tribulation saints
By the word of the LORD, those three parts are completed into one FIRST RESURRECTION at HIS SECOND COMING.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,172
3,699
113
#98
Does "by the word of the Lord" have any significance to you?

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ says: the error of pre-trib rapture will by NO MEANS OCCUR
for dead in Christ will rise FIRST
AFTER that the rapture of the remaining/alive Saints get "caught up"

How have you no fear of God to add to or take away from His words?
When Christ comes for his church, he will resurrect those who have died in him, and they will be caught up together with those who are alive and remain. That’s the body of Christ. That’s the rapture.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#99
When Christ comes for his church, he will resurrect those who have died in him, and they will be caught up together with those who are alive and remain. That’s the body of Christ. That’s the rapture.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
CORRECT - Just as it says in Revelation 20
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,172
3,699
113
And your three parts here overide Scripture - 'adding to and taking away from God's words"

Do you not realize what Proverbs 30: 5-6 and Revelation 22: 18-19 are saying to you?
You haven’t used scripture yet. You use a perverted version that is of the devil. You have yet proved to me how I am adding to scripture.