Could the tribulation start this year?
- Thread starter Blain
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Yes prewrath is one that I find very likely as well I would not be surprised if that was in fact the case And I do understand that my info is still shaky it is only a starting point and is not concrete as fact but above all else even if I have to throw out my original info I just want to find the truth I want to dive deep into it to know exactly where we are in the timeline regarless of my beliefs.
In all honesty I know what the scriptures say and depending on how you look at it we can align current events with prophecy but to much is left to interpretation if I am to find the truth it has to be without biaas and just facts it would help if I knew a person on youtube who was like that that way I could watch and listen while doing my own studies in the scriptures
In all honesty I know what the scriptures say and depending on how you look at it we can align current events with prophecy but to much is left to interpretation if I am to find the truth it has to be without biaas and just facts it would help if I knew a person on youtube who was like that that way I could watch and listen while doing my own studies in the scriptures
Psalm 27 The Lord is my light and my salvation;
Whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the strength of my life;
Of whom shall I be afraid?
2 When the wicked came against me
To eat[a] up my flesh,
My enemies and foes,
They stumbled and fell.
3 Though an army may encamp against me,
My heart shall not fear;
Though war may rise against me,
In this I will be confident.
4 One thing I have desired of the Lord,
That will I seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the Lord
All the days of my life,
To behold the [b]beauty of the Lord,
And to inquire in His temple.
5 For in the time of trouble
He shall hide me in His pavilion;
In the secret place of His tabernacle
He shall hide me;
He shall set me high upon a rock.
6 And now my head shall be [c]lifted up above my enemies all around me;
Therefore I will offer sacrifices of [d]joy in His tabernacle;
I will sing, yes, I will sing praises to the Lord.
7 Hear, O Lord, when I cry with my voice!
Have mercy also upon me, and answer me.
8 When You said, “Seek My face,”
My heart said to You, “Your face, Lord, I will seek.”
9 Do not hide Your face from me;
Do not turn Your servant away in anger;
You have been my help;
Do not leave me nor forsake me,
O God of my salvation.
10 When my father and my mother forsake me,
Then the Lord will take care of me.
11 Teach me Your way, O Lord,
And lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies.
12 Do not deliver me to the will of my adversaries;
For false witnesses have risen against me,
And such as breathe out violence.
13 I would have lost heart, unless I had believed
That I would see the goodness of the Lord
In the land of the living.
14 Wait[e] on the Lord;
Be of good courage,
And He shall strengthen your heart;
Wait, I say, on the Lord!
Whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the strength of my life;
Of whom shall I be afraid?
2 When the wicked came against me
To eat[a] up my flesh,
My enemies and foes,
They stumbled and fell.
3 Though an army may encamp against me,
My heart shall not fear;
Though war may rise against me,
In this I will be confident.
4 One thing I have desired of the Lord,
That will I seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the Lord
All the days of my life,
To behold the [b]beauty of the Lord,
And to inquire in His temple.
5 For in the time of trouble
He shall hide me in His pavilion;
In the secret place of His tabernacle
He shall hide me;
He shall set me high upon a rock.
6 And now my head shall be [c]lifted up above my enemies all around me;
Therefore I will offer sacrifices of [d]joy in His tabernacle;
I will sing, yes, I will sing praises to the Lord.
7 Hear, O Lord, when I cry with my voice!
Have mercy also upon me, and answer me.
8 When You said, “Seek My face,”
My heart said to You, “Your face, Lord, I will seek.”
9 Do not hide Your face from me;
Do not turn Your servant away in anger;
You have been my help;
Do not leave me nor forsake me,
O God of my salvation.
10 When my father and my mother forsake me,
Then the Lord will take care of me.
11 Teach me Your way, O Lord,
And lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies.
12 Do not deliver me to the will of my adversaries;
For false witnesses have risen against me,
And such as breathe out violence.
13 I would have lost heart, unless I had believed
That I would see the goodness of the Lord
In the land of the living.
14 Wait[e] on the Lord;
Be of good courage,
And He shall strengthen your heart;
Wait, I say, on the Lord!
I do think it has it's place of importance but you know something Blain. I think what's even more important is making sure one's spiritual relationship with God in prayer, praise and fellowship with him is strong. Inward spiritual strength and having it built up within one will get one through whatever the times are ahead. Yes even if there's persecutions one can face it not in dread or in stress but with YES even joy. The joy would be because we look at the bigger picture that this world is not our home and that we're just passing through and that we belong to a different kingdom.
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There are too many problems with prewrath theory, but a very glaring one is it requires an almost total rearranging of Revelation, proving it is a theory of error.
Case in point? The 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church age, and the days of Great Tribulation in Revelation won't start until late in chapter 14.
Case in point? The 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church age, and the days of Great Tribulation in Revelation won't start until late in chapter 14.
The task has not been taken away from the Jews, but away from the Jewish *nation.* Jews are still part of the Church today when they accept their Messiah Jesus. There has always been a remnant of Jews in the Church. So you can't say the Gospel has been given exclusively to the Gentiles, and not to the Jews!
The fact that many countries of the world aren't Christian doesn't mean that they live in a separate "dispensation" from the Church Age! China isn't Christian and it is in the same dispensation as the Church Age!
It is no different with Israel. Israel is no longer a nation of God, and is certainly not a Christian nation. But it is still in the dispensation of the Church Age! That's the problem with Dispensationalism--it is extremely confusing, and really isn't even true. It is, at best, half true, and that isn't close enough.
The Scriptures say that Jesus will come back in the same way he left. He will come back to Israel, as promised, to restore that nation to godliness. But I believe he is also coming back for the world, to restore Christian nations. In the OT the focus was on Israel exclusively, and those promises have not gone away. But in the NT God's promises are extended to Christian nations. Not just Israel will be restored in the Millennial, even though the OT prophets focused on Israel at a time when only Israel was living for God.
We have to be clear what we're talking about, whether "removing bias" or "removing racial distinctions?" As I said, the qualification for Salvation was said not to be race-based, by Paul. Paul thus removed "racial bias." But he did *not* remove racial distincitons. He continued to state the difference between racial groups, though not with respect to Salvation. He identified the Jews and the Greeks, just as we would differentiate Germans, Latinos, and Chinese today.
We've covered this already. Yes, some Jews have been laying plans for a restoration of the Law for decades. It doesn't seem possible to me. There are a lot of secret religious organizations who think they are controlling world events. It's not real. Again, a rebuilt Jewish temple would disallow any ruler to take up residence there!
Antiochus 4 did *not* take up residence in the temple, nor make it his throne room. And yet Paul is saying just that, that Antichrist will take up residence *in the temple,* proclaiming himself Deity. That just can't happen with a reconstructed OT temple! The second the Antichrist removes the ark of the covenant it ceases to be a Jewish temple. But I think Paul is talking about a metaphorical declaration, that Antichrist is assuming a place in God's heavenly temple.
Been fun discussing this with you.
Yes, we agree on some important things, and these are just conversation pieces. I'm not signing off on any of it in blood!
The fact that many countries of the world aren't Christian doesn't mean that they live in a separate "dispensation" from the Church Age! China isn't Christian and it is in the same dispensation as the Church Age!
It is no different with Israel. Israel is no longer a nation of God, and is certainly not a Christian nation. But it is still in the dispensation of the Church Age! That's the problem with Dispensationalism--it is extremely confusing, and really isn't even true. It is, at best, half true, and that isn't close enough.
The Scriptures say that Jesus will come back in the same way he left. He will come back to Israel, as promised, to restore that nation to godliness. But I believe he is also coming back for the world, to restore Christian nations. In the OT the focus was on Israel exclusively, and those promises have not gone away. But in the NT God's promises are extended to Christian nations. Not just Israel will be restored in the Millennial, even though the OT prophets focused on Israel at a time when only Israel was living for God.
We have to be clear what we're talking about, whether "removing bias" or "removing racial distinctions?" As I said, the qualification for Salvation was said not to be race-based, by Paul. Paul thus removed "racial bias." But he did *not* remove racial distincitons. He continued to state the difference between racial groups, though not with respect to Salvation. He identified the Jews and the Greeks, just as we would differentiate Germans, Latinos, and Chinese today.
We've covered this already. Yes, some Jews have been laying plans for a restoration of the Law for decades. It doesn't seem possible to me. There are a lot of secret religious organizations who think they are controlling world events. It's not real. Again, a rebuilt Jewish temple would disallow any ruler to take up residence there!
Antiochus 4 did *not* take up residence in the temple, nor make it his throne room. And yet Paul is saying just that, that Antichrist will take up residence *in the temple,* proclaiming himself Deity. That just can't happen with a reconstructed OT temple! The second the Antichrist removes the ark of the covenant it ceases to be a Jewish temple. But I think Paul is talking about a metaphorical declaration, that Antichrist is assuming a place in God's heavenly temple.
Been fun discussing this with you.
"""1. no verses show Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven."""
Unbelievably false and you have ALREADY benn debunked in that baloney.
You NEED those raptured to do the imaginary false uturn in the sky back to earth. Nowhere is that dynamic in scripture.
Your doctrine created that falsehood
O
Matthew 27:51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; 52 the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many
Yes first and foremost the love and intimacy with God has to be first. Personally even if I had to go through the tribulation I asked God to serve him in that time I sought to be strong in him not for myself but for him and for others and in this time his love and his light is going to be needed the most perhaps I will be held to my request or perhaps I won't either way he lead me to search about the tribulation for a reason I am just following his leading.
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The resurrection is likened to the harvest, whether it is of wheat, tares, grapes, barley, figs, or whatever. For each of them there is one harvest, but when you look at the harvest season there are multiple harvests. This verse does not in any way prove that there are only two raptures, but rather that for both righteous and wicked there will be a gathering.
Again, this does not in any way prove there isn't a pretribulation rapture, only that there are some saints who are not raptured at that time. The context of this being "the first resurrection" is with the thousand year millenial reign, in other words we will have a resurrection prior to that millenial reign.
The word "firstfruits" is a direct reference to these harvest seasons, you generally have 3 seasons, you have the spring wheat, summer wheat, and then the fall harvest.
I get it, this is the elementary school teaching of "the coming of our Lord". It is like getting the view from 40,000 feet. As you dive into it there is a whole lot more nuance. I already told you I have posted all the references I could find here: https://christianchat.com/blogs/sum...es-on-the-rapture.197802/page-73#post-4625218
At this point I almost have 1,500 posts. The vast majority are expositions on the word of God, most by me, but I have provided links to many excellent videos that bring something more to the discussion from the word of God.
Well I am not disagreeing with you but perhaps revelation needs to be read in a rearraged way to really understand it. No one really fully understands revelation and each person believes they have it right people debate about it until they are blue but there is only one truth yet no one can agree on which it is.
This is why I want to understand without bias without my own personal beliefs preset when understanding all this, it's all to easy to read it and think to ourselves this is the truth but if we do this without looking at it from a non personaal view even if the truth is in front of us we will be blind to it and see only our truth
This is why I want to understand without bias without my own personal beliefs preset when understanding all this, it's all to easy to read it and think to ourselves this is the truth but if we do this without looking at it from a non personaal view even if the truth is in front of us we will be blind to it and see only our truth