If YESUAH says that the wicked is gather FIRST, WHY ARE some people looking for a rapture,??? Who does the say was taken in the flood.???

"Wheat", "chaff", "winnowing fork", and "threshing floor" can be confusing unless you are familiar with farming techniques or research the terms. It is unfortunate that in your haste to gainsay you have overlooked the richness and meaning of the parable.

The wicked are discussed in Mat 3:10

"And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." - Matthew 3:10 KJV

After this, the passage mentions that the wheat is gathered, purified (winnowed) and the unfruitful parts of the wheat (the chaff) are burned. The fruit of the wheat is taken into the barn (as a metaphor for the spiritual being that we exist as when in Christ).

Winnowing is basically the process of taking a pitch fork (the fan in KJV) and tossing the full wheat into the air. The lighter material (the chaff) is caught in the air and leaves the fruit. This process is repeated until the desired purity is met (e.g. all of the chaff is removed from the fruit down to the bottom of the threshing floor). This is done on a threshing floor.

Chaff represents the bad parts of good people (those in Christ) that are burned away on the judgement day.

Matthew 25 has a section that talks about what happens to the wicked (goats) and righteous (sheep) but doesn't give a chronology of which one is dealt with first, only that the righteous are spoken to first. The chronology of action is unclear to the point that the final line mentions the wicked ones' punishment first then the righteous ones' eternal life.

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." - Matthew 25:46 KJV

Revelation has a sequence of stories that discuss the nations of the earth coming to ruin. People dying. God's wrath on earth.

"For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." - Revelation 18:3-4

We see that this process still leaves good people on earth well after Revelation 14, meaning they were on earth well after God's wrath started to manifest. It all comes to a head in Revelation 20 when the devil joins the beast and the false prophets in the lake of fire, there is a resurrection of all dead and then all whose names are not in the book of life get cast into the lake of fire. Then the scene jumps to new heaven and new earth of those that are saved. I don't see any reason why the "into cloud" imagery couldn't be placed at the passing of earth and heaven after judgement is declared.

Which passage do you place the second coming? The appearance of the white horse?

If we're talking about the moment the wrath of God comes into play, how do you address Revelation 18:3-4 which shows that good people are still on earth?

Multiple passages describe the second coming so I am not sure which one you want me to address.


Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


Babylon has already fallen by the timeframe of Revelation 18. Verse 4 is speaking to the people reading Revelation and is a warning for them to not to be a part of Babylon when she is present on the Earth. Verse 4 isn't part of the timeframe of Babylon falling but would be like present tense to those reading along like us and everyone else right now etc.

What you say makes sense. I'll have to think on this one. Thank you for taking the time to explain

Again, this just proves you do not know how to divide the word of God, One day you are going to understand (even if its Jesus in Heaven explaining unto why you allowed bad understandings to lead you down rabbit holes) that you were in error.

Jesus stated VERY CLEARLY (THINK NOW.......Can you do that or do you have it all figured out? No one does, too many think they do ) that he came ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel. So, when Jesus is teaching the Jews about end-times things, why are you trying to insert the Gentile church into the place of Israel who are the end time Wheat as I told you the other day, thus you AGAIN get it wrong because still can not grasp the difference, or refuse to admit these truths, either way, this is simple stuff, if on;y you could grasp that NOWHERE, NEVER dod Jesus nor Paul ever say the Jews and Gentiles are all or on this earth, we are one in Christ via FAITH ALONE, if what you assume is correct then there are no MEN nor WOMEN they all have to be one also, which proves that whole point went right over your head, along with many others I might add. Paul is simply telling the Galatians to STOP trying to get to Heaven by being Jewish !! Via serving the Law which is of the flesh !! He says we are all one on Christ because of FAITH. Nort because of Genes, Greeks will still be Greeks, Romans will be Romans and Jews will be Jews, but as per God, He sees ONLY OUR FAITH !!

So, Rev. 14:17-20 is later on in the Chapter than Rev. 14:1, which is why I see the 144,000 (which is ALL Israel who God protects in the Petra/Bozrah area or 3-5 million Jews) as just being prose, they don't stand on the Mt with Jesis as he lands per see, it's an Earthquake, that would place them in harm's way. Jesus shows up, slays the Beast, False Prophet, and his minions and then he gathers the Jews from the Petra area. So, indeed the Wheat (Israel) and the wicked are allowed to grow together until the very end, then I see the Wicked as getting slain first (OF COURSE), and then the Wheat (Israel) are indeed gathered last. YOUR PROBLEM is you don't understand who the Wheat is and that Jesus only came to the Lost Sheep of Israel, s why would he be preaching to the Gentiles (It's mind-boggling this doesn't register). Jesus would barely speak to the Samaritan woman, saying she was a dog, but her FAITH moved him, BUT, Jesus said nary a word to her until that point where her faith moved him. Jesus did not come to preach end time tidings unto the Gentiles, which is why Paul had to be sent out SPECIFICALLY unto the Gentiles. But yet you don't get the Wheat are ONLY Israel !!

You yourself are wrong on this Rondonmon! The wheat is not just speaking about Israel, but about the Gentile saints who are still alive when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. In support of this, Matthew 24:31 states that the angels will go throughout the four corners of the earth and will gather the elect, which is referring to those Gentile saints from every nation, people, tribe and language. These are those whom the beast will be given authority to make war against and to conquer them for 42 months, which is that last 3 1/2 years as revealed in Rev.13:5-7. The saints that he makes war against and conquers is speaking of the following who survive during the tribulation.

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."

The fact that they are from ever nation, tribe, people and language, makes them Gentile saints, i.e. the great tribulation saints. According to the parable of the wheat and weeds, the weeds are gathered first, then the wheat is brought into His barn, i.e. into the millennial kingdom.

The church is made up of both Jew and Gentile who will all be gathered prior to the tribulation period. However, God is going to be dealing with the unbelieving nation of Israel during that time, who are under a different program. In other words, do not confuse the believing Jews of Israel who belong to the church with the unbelieving nation of Israel. It is the latter that God is going to fulfill that last seven years of the decree of seventy sevens with.

The 144,000 is not representing all of Israel! The number is just as it is stated, 144,000, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. And if you can except it, the Male Child that the woman/Israel gives birth to is a collective name representing the 144,000. Out of the woman (unbelieving Israel) comes 144,000 believing Israelites, ergo, she gives birth to a male child. The male child is not Jesus as many have interpreted. He doesn't even fit the criteria of the male child.

In Revelation 12:6, 14, the dragon/Satan is waiting for the woman to give birth so that he can kill the child, but the child is caught up to God and His throne before the dragon can do that, i.e. the 144,000 are caught up to God's throne in the middle of the seven years. The woman/unbelieving Israel flees out into the wilderness where she is cared for by God during that last 3 1/2 years.

In Rev.14 it is stated that the 144,000 are standing on Mount Zion with the Lamb, which is referring to the heavenly Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem, not the earthly one:

"Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels."

Wheat harvest
barley harvest
grape harvest

factor in the grapes.
calm down first

You can find scriptures to justify all the different positions held by Christians. We will find out one day, sooner rather than later, I hope. We should all be ready, whatever happens. Believers in North Korea, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc know what tribulation is. They will tell you that God's grace is sufficient. Christians should not ignore the truth of the coming of Christ, neither should there be endless and pointless debate.

Rev. 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev. 19:8 says the FINE LINEN is the Righteousness of the Saints, So, we are in Heaven and return with Jesus Christ. Jesus will indeed gather up THE ELECT, but Seal #5 (which is prophesying about the soon to come 42 months of Beast rule) says the Saints will be killed, and Jesus (prophesying FORWARD) tells them they have to wait until the Beasts 42-month rule is finished before they can get their vengeance, So let's just say it in plain speak. Jesus says that all the Gentile Saints must be killed before he returns, now might there be a few that dodge for 3.5 years? Yea, but I am speaking in General, the Gentile Church are not the Wheat because we get Raptured, and the Remnant [Gentile] Church of Rev. 12:17 all get killed after the Dragon sends the Anti-Christ after the Remnant, who can't be Jews, they can only be Gentiles.

Those Gentiles you are thinking of will be RAISED from the Dead and Judged (Rev. 20:4) then they will serve Jesus on this earth for 1000 years.

The reason I'm never wrong is that I'm always right. {} Just kidding, after you popped the whip in me. I'm like Foonzzie, I can't say the word Wrrrrrrrrr wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr wrr. (Happy Days reference, you might not know that one, oh well.)

And that's the point, the Beast can indeed GET AT THEM, they will all die, the Jews are protected for 1260 days. So, when Jesus gathers up the Elect, in Matthew 24 it's speaking from a Jewish perspective only, he's going to gather up those whom he will rule with from Jerusalem, the Wheat. The Gentiles are not the wheat. They are supposed to be in the Rapture, those who make it do so by laying down their lives for Christ. Jesus came to the House of Israel only, he was not prophesying about any other elect. He allowed Paul to give light on the Rapture, so why would he basically not spell out the Rapture, but then he would prophesy about a Gentile Elect? Those Elect he gathers are Jews, the Gentiles are killed off by the Beast.

You just cited a Scripture that shows the Church Age Saints in Heaven. If you guys would just look at the 5th Seal prophecy by Jesus AND Rev. 20:4 you would see that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the 70th-week saints to be in Heaven BEFORE Jesus returns. FULL STOP, think it through brother. ITS IMPOSIBLE that those you just cited are 70th week Saints, I have to you this before but you just brush it off, I have THE RECEIPTS.

Jesus clearly says that those under the Altar have to wait until ALL TE BROTHERS have been killed in like manner before they can get their vengeance. PLAIN SPEAK. Jesus just told these 70th-week Martyrs they could get NO VENGEANCE until the Beast's 42-month murder and mayhem rule was over. (That is exactly what it says). Then in Rev. 20:4, we see GodJeus CLEARLY only judges these Martyrs who refused the Mark of the Beast AFTER Jesus' Second Coming, so how can it be them in Heaven at that time brother? ANSWER, it's not them, those you see are the Raptured Church who came out of the 2000 some odd year GREAT CHURCH AGE TRIBULATION. Don't get hung up on one word, as in only one thing can be described as great, MANY THINGS can be used by God to describe many a varied thing as great. Jesus told us all time on this earth is tribulation, 2000 is greater than 7 or 3.5 so................2000>7. The other will not fit at all, the scriptures deny that those people seen in Rev. 7:9 can come out of the 70th week, it is not possible. AT ALL.

The Church is in Heaven during the 70th week, both Jew and Gentile believers. The 70th week comes, from that moment te "FLOOD STARTS" no one will make it to Heaven after that. The DOORS to the wedding will e SHUT UP, the symbolism is screaming out brother. No one makes it to the wedding for the full 7 year period, because, as Jesus said, when those doors are locked, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. What that means is this, from that point on, the only way fr the Gentiles to make heaven will be to be Martyrs. God will protect the Israeli peoples fr 1260 days, BUT WHY? Because God has promised Abraham he will have a continual seed on this earth and there are another 1000 years for Jesus to rule in Jerusalem, and Jesus will be the King of the Jews as Prophesy tells us.

The way I see it you are confusing Rev. 7:9-17 and it's throwing you off brother.

No, I shan't even debate this, s per the 144,000 I can understand a push back on that even though I am correct, but the whole Re. 12 is the Church thing doesn't even arise to a debatable point with me tbh. The 144,000 is just like the Woman (Israel) in Rev. 12. God uses code words in Revelation, God never uses Israel, got uses 10 (COMPLETENESS) and 12 (FULNESS) as in 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 144,000 and we can't see what that means? So if it means 144,000 (it doesn't imho) then where are the 1/3 who repent in Zechariah 13:8-9 brother? Why dies God just so happen to never mention them in the book of Revelation?

1/3 of 15 million Jews is 5 million Jews, I don't think all will have moved to Israel by that time, so let's say they add 3 million to their 9 million, and thus 4 million Jewish/Israelites come to Christ WHERE ARE THEY AT? Now, look at where the 144,000 is at, right before the TRUMPET JUDGMENTS FALL in Rev. 8, the Seals in Rev. 6 do nothing, the Jews are fleeing Judea just before the Middle of the week 1260, AFTER having seen the 1290 which happens 30 days before that. It fits like a glove with the Jews Fleeing, and why did John/God use THE WOMAN in the place of Israel? Because God didn't want the Romans killing of the Church Members for treason, saying Israel were going to have victory in the end, so not only did He use Wman, He used 144,000.

We can see this s correct by flipping over to Zechariah 13:8-9, the Jews REPENT, then the very next verse says in Zechariah 14:1 BEHOLD the DAY of the LORD COMES. So, the Jews REpent, just before the Day of the Lord God's Wrath arrives right

Now compare Rev. 7 (Israel/144,000 flees) AND Rev. 8, (the Trumpet Judgments give us the Wrath of God). Now COMPARE Zechariah 13:8-9 and Zechariah 14:1, SAME THING, Repentenabce followed by the DOTL.

God Bless

"""So, indeed the Wheat (Israel) and the wicked """
Probably not
Israel is probably the grapes.
Rev 14 has the righteous gathered first.. So none of that is correct.

"""then I see the Wicked as getting slain first (OF COURSE), """

Wow i already posted 3 times where the righteous are gathered first....and one of them is SPECIFICALLY ISRAEL....so wrong again

"""YOUR PROBLEM is you don't understand who the Wheat is and that Jesus only came to the Lost Sheep of Israel, s why would he be preaching to the Gentiles (It's mind-boggling this doesn't register). Jesus would barely speak to the Samaritan woman, saying she was a dog, but her FAITH moved him, BUT, Jesus said nary a word to her until that point where her faith moved him. Jesus did not come to preach end time tidings unto the Gentiles,"""

You write something that goofy and it never registers as a red flag?
Ahem...Jesus said what to the 7 churches in rev????
Jesus said what in jn 3:16???? Something about earths inhabitants ( ahem...GENTILES)
On top of all that Jesus is THE WORD OF GOD....to assume you have some higher ground by claiming Jesus was only sent to israel and then getting owned by jn 3:16 proves you need us to help you.

1) jettison those teachers
2) view all end times through the bride /groom prism
3)stop reframing the bible
4)stop omitting verses
5) ask question
6) rest in your newfound truth....it will put a smile on your face.

The problem you encounter with me is you seem to check nothing out, ignore verses, and test fitting is some taboo to you.

seems correct to me.

nor fear of teaching the heart of God....THE BRIDE AND HER SOON GATHERING TO HEAVEN...THE RAPTURE.

Ask yourself...what thought did God leave his family with?

Answer....the last sentences of the bible...the Bride calling the groom.

Those rejecting that and with no interest are the ones left behind.

"""why are you trying to insert the Gentile church into the place of Israel who are the end time Wheat as I told you the other day, thus you AGAIN get it wrong because still can not grasp the difference, or refuse to admit these truths, either way, this is simple stuff, if on;y you could grasp that NOWHERE, NEVER dod Jesus nor Paul ever say the Jews and Gentiles are all or on this earth, we are one in Christ via FAITH ALONE, if what you assume is correct then there are no MEN nor WOMEN they all have to be one also, which proves that whole point went right over your head, along with many others I might add. Paul is simply telling the Galatians to STOP trying to get to Heaven by being Jewish !"""

I got a little chuckle from that baloney.

You have no clue what you are talking about.
1) the 144k ARE ETHNIC JEWS
2) Galations is not some anti Jewish book. It is anti WORKS.
3) Galations TEACHES US the jews come in last....grafted BACK IN.
VIVIDLY PICTURED in rev 14....impossible to miss....but since your end times focus is skewed by " wheat" and other one liners you have picked up....your view is also skewed.

That where the bible hounds come in. We check out everything.

Again ask questions. Stop messing with Gods word. Just read what is there IN CONTEXT

Jesus had always had the Gentiles in mind. It's shortsighted to exclude Gentiles from the ministry of Jesus and likely will result in numerous misunderstandings of biblical truths.

Matthew 28:18-20
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus told His followers to teach all nations. That's the Gentiles. Don't make the mistake of minimizing the relevancy of the Gentiles.

"""It is unfortunate that in your haste to gainsay you have overlooked the richness and meaning of the parable."""

....Yet it was I that showed you the righteous gathered first.
....followed by your backpeddling and schooling on the surrounding obvious sentences.

All those words in your attempt to make it say what you focus on , while leaving out the point i made and showed you.

Plain bizarre

Do you obey the following commands of Jesus?

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

"If YESUAH says that the wicked is gather FIRST, WHY ARE some people looking for a rapture,??? Who does the say was taken in the flood.???"

YESUAH says that the RIGHTEOUS is gather FIRST, WHY ARE some people to make Mat 24 say "one taken" is the wicked??? Who was taken in the flood first???did the boat float first while the people went up the mountains???? Did noah enter the ark first????

There....i fixed the op.

It will come to any in the bright Light that is given by our Father.

All who are Israel will rule with God. This is what Israel translateses as...to rule with El *God.)

The Jews will all be saved, all. Judah may be traqnslated as to Praise God or Praiser of God..

All who praise God from the heart in Spirit and truth will be with Him forever.

Jesus Yeshua says He has another flock which He is to gather with the original flock.

Jesus is the Way to enter into His sheepfold.

These hints in teaching tell any who believe God that all who believe are Israel and they ae true Jews.
Beware of those who say they are Jews and are not. These are a synagogue of Satan.

Now another big hint, New Jerusalem will be brought down by our Father...

There are so many blatant hints in the teaching of the Word. Do not argue any of this, believe the teachings.

Is jn 3:16 a lie
Did paul preach the same gospel as Jesus?
Did Jesus preach his own death burial and resurrection before paul?
Did peter get the revelation of the gentiles included before paul???
Did paul and Jesus preach the kingdom of God? Gospel of the kingdom?

There must be 50 red flags in your pauline only baloney

And yet, I said nothing about Paul. You didn't answer my question, instead you fired back. Do you obey the following commands given by Jesus?

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.