Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

If all else fails, kick the other players instead of the ball.

Whatever Grizzly Adams, you won't be here long. Not gonna waste more breath. We've seen your kind come and go.

Ok, i don’r get this response then?

The point is, if we dwell on sin, we are more proned to sin. If we dwell on the righteousness of Christ that is OURS, we are better off.

He showed me that He doesn't always have to give me a hand-out when I need money. If I have skills and am available to get a job and work for my living, He will provide one.

The Bible says, "My God shall supply all your needs...."

i don’t doubt it, your so sold on lies? True christians would have to just move on

The Holy Spirit uses all sorts of ways to bring a person to faith in Christ. I didn't need to see any miracles to make me believe the Gospel. I just knew that I needed to get right with God and when I was shown the Gospel Scriptures I believed them and received Christ as my Saviour.

People in western countries have been corrupted by Plato and Aristotle, who believed that something is real only if I can be empirically proved by science. Therefore, something that cannot be proved by science is not real. So if someone says that they have been healed as the result of a miracle, people steeped in Aristotle philosophy would say it is fake, not real, and didn't really happen.

But people in third world countries in Asia and Africa have no problem with the supernatural, because they see it often in their pagan temples. The supernatural is real to them because they are not corrupted by Aristotle philosophy.

Therefore when the Holy Spirit miraculously heals someone, they know that the power of God is greater than the power of their pagan idols, and this causes them to receive Christ.

Sounds like you both are talking past each other. While the Christian's focus must always be on righteousness, it is also evident that believers can and do sin and must deal with present sins (not choose to sin habitually which would mean that they are not even saved). However, when the focus is on spiritual gifts, then it deflects from the matter at hand. Spiritual gifts should simply be exercised without fanfare. But tongues are undoubtedly disruptive and cause divisions. And modern tongues are not even biblical tongues.

I live in the western world, and I most certainly believe that the pagan supernatural is real, but I also know that it is from the demonic. Knowing this I don't seek for "christian" miracles because I know they can also be from the demonic.

You assume wrongly. If people are willing to place their faith in false pagan miracles then they will also be willing to place their faith in false christian miracles too.

Bottom Line: I don't need those miracles that you advocate for to believe in God.
Why should I place my faith in something I don't need?

Sounds like you both are talking past each other. While the Christian's focus must always be on righteousness, it is also evident that believers can and do sin and must deal with present sins (not choose to sin habitually which would mean that they are not even saved). However, when the focus is on spiritual gifts, then it deflects from the matter at hand. Spiritual gifts should simply be exercised without fanfare. But tongues are undoubtedly disruptive and cause divisions. And modern tongues are not even biblical tongues.

Rejecting Biblical teaching on spiritual gifts is not an appropriate solution to this issue.

As you will note in my earlier detailed post, there was NO REJECTING of any spiritual gift. However, I clearly explain why some spiritual gifts are no longer operational, but the majority are still operational. And those with spiritual discernment will agree.

Your example is prejudice. Your judgement is in error.


I live in the western world, and I most certainly believe that the pagan supernatural is real, but I also know that it is from the demonic. Knowing this I don't seek for "christian" miracles because I know they can also be from the demonic.


You assume wrongly. If people are willing to place their faith in false pagan miracles then they will also be willing to place their faith in false christian miracles too.

Bottom Line: I don't need those miracles that you advocate for to believe in God.
Why should I place my faith in something I don't need?

Couldn't such miracles have been demonic in the first century? Do you think the apostles were wrong to pray to God to do signs and wonders? Why did miracles occur after their prayer?



Who is saying that someone needs to have miracles to believe in God? If you do not need them to believe in God, does that mean that the body of Christ does not need them? You seem to hold to a strange false dichotomy, the idea that we either need to have miracles so that we can believe in God or else we do not need them at all. This type of thinking does not line up with scripture.

In i Corinthians 12, Paul mentions different kinds of spiritual gifts, describing different individuals with different gifts as members of the body of Christ. One part of our body does not say to another part, "I have no need of thee." The implication is that we should not say this to one another. You should not say to those gifted to work miracles, "I have no need of thee."

If you can believe in God without seeing a miracle, that is a good thing, of course, but that does not mean that you do not need the grace of God manifested through the gift of the working of miracles or the members of the body of Christ who exercise those gifts.

The problem is not that cessationism deny
that God is working still with miracles and healings for his gloryfication.
The problem is that since Topeka and Azuza a New teaching arose among Christians which claims that the spiritual gifts (tongues, prophecie, healings) are today the same as in the time of the apostles.
New is, that speaking in tongues is the visible sign, that somebody is baptised with the Holy Spirit. This teaching was not in the churchhistory, nor in the NT taught. Out from Acts 2,8,10 and 19 which can seen as sign for the jews an doctrine was createt which never was taught to the Christians. No Single Letter to the churches mentioned this teaching.
And the fact, that today pentecostals and charismatics cant show that healings and prophecie are in the same quality like in the Apostles time reveals that there is something wrong.
Not only this, if someone has not the gift of speaking in tongues something must be wrong with him, because it is taught that this gift should be for every believer, who wants it.
And if someone is not be healed, then the reason is for shure his sin ore lack of faith,
this causes many suffering among belivers and brings them under pressure.
Because of this false teaching I am against it.
I am not against healing ore miracles ore prophecie as it was in the days of the apostle.

As you will note in my earlier detailed post, there was NO REJECTING of any spiritual gift. However, I clearly explain why some spiritual gifts are no longer operational, but the majority are still operational. And those with spiritual discernment will agree.

Have you ever walked by an occult type store or such and felt/heard the high pitched buzz of the lord of the flies? That is what i get from you continuationests here, downright evil comes through the lines from you guys, scary really (and you will try to twist that into your being on the right side of judgement), i see why you own your own bit of darkness here, your father of this time has given it to you. Your end is going to be so tragic and deserved if you do not turn from your false religions now.....

Have you ever walked by an occult type store or such and felt/heard the high pitched buzz of the lord of the flies? That is what i get from you continuationests here, downright evil comes through the lines from you guys, scary really (and you will try to twist that into your being on the right side of judgement),