Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

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Magenta

Magenta

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#561
Jul 3, 2015
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#561
Lisamn said:
What do you do with verses that specifically say that some will fall away from the faith? Are they people Jesus never knew...and if they are...then how can they fall away from the faith..they were never the faithful then. No...many place in scripture God tells us that people will fall away from the faith and they can’t return from it. If they fall from faith..then they must have been in the faith in the first place. There is no osas....and the opposite...they never belonged...these people were of the faith..had the Holy Spirit.
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Do you think those who will claim they were prophesying in Jesus' Name and driving out demons in Jesus' Name and performing many miracles in Jesus' Name consider themselves to be of the faith? Surely they do. Yet Jesus plainly says to them, "I never knew you." People like that need to fall away from the faith. They don't really belong in the first place.
 
Lisamn

Lisamn

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#562
Magenta said:
Do you think those who will claim they were prophesying in Jesus' Name and driving out demons in Jesus' Name and performing many miracles in Jesus' Name consider themselves to be of the faith? Surely they do. Yet Jesus plainly says to them, "I never knew you." People like that need to fall away from the faith. They don't really belong in the first place.
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Well, considering yourself to be of the faith and being of the faith can be two different things sometimes. That’s why we are told to test ourselves and see if we are of the faith.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?​


1 Timothy however is talking about people being of the faith and not people who think they are of the faith and aren’t. How do I know this? Because it says that some will fall away from the faith. They aren’t those who think they are...they are those that are of the faith.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#563
Jul 3, 2015
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#563
Lisamn said:
Well, considering yourself to be of the faith and being of the faith can be two different things sometimes. That’s why we are told to test ourselves and see if we are of the faith.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?​

1 Timothy however is talking about people being of the faith and not people who think they are of the faith and aren’t. How do I know this? Because it says that some will fall away from the faith. They aren’t those who think they are...they are those that are of the faith.
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Those who are sealed and of whom Jesus says He will lose none, that nobody can snatch them out of His hand... I believe Jesus means what He says there. Those who fall away think they belong when they really don't. Maybe they have pretty much everyone else fooled too, though not intentionally, of course. They truly believe they belong. Some are in ministry for years and then fall away. They fall away from the faith. Has Jesus lost them, or did they not truly belong to begin with?
 
LostSoul

LostSoul

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Jan 28, 2021
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#564
My own feeling on this is "yes".

Would you forgive somebody who wasn't sorry for what they did?
I know I would have a hard time doing that.
 
Lisamn

Lisamn

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#565
Magenta said:
Those who are sealed and of whom Jesus says He will lose none, that nobody can snatch them out of His hand... I believe Jesus means what He says there. Those who fall away think they belong when they really don't. Maybe they have pretty much everyone else fooled too, though not intentionally, of course. They truly believe they belong. Some are in ministry for years and then fall away. They fall away from the faith. Has Jesus lost them, or did they not truly belong to begin with?
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They have fallen away from the faith. We still have free will to believe or not don’t we? No one can snatch us away...unless we ourselves allow it. It’s on you to either deny or confess Christ.

I think that we are talking about 2 different things that happens in scripture. Those who think they are saved but really aren’t and those who are saved and fall away from the faith for a variety of reasons...turning aside to myths...wanting teachers to go along with what their itchy ears want, doctrines of demons and deceitful spirits.
 
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peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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Blik said:
Whoa!!! Now we are to gossip about all people who study language and translate from that study? On top of that!! take the translations of men who lived in the 1600's that believed that murder was OK, as they believed in murdering Jews. They translated the word Passover as Easter, because Passover was of the Jews, they didn't think the word Passover was scripture.

That is on a par with saying all of that KJV translation they did back then is not wonderful because it isn't perfect.
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Are you saying 1600 murders interpreted the KJV version? So why inject that?
 
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peldom10

Banned
#567
May 22, 2020
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#567
Magenta said:
Scripture is pretty clear. Those who leave, never belonged in the first place.

I accept that at face value. Everyone who goes to church is not saved.

Even some professing to do works in His Name ;)

Jesus said? "I never knew you."



John 10:27-28:)
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That is a non biblical supported conclusion.
People leave their conviction for many different reasons. None of which are justifiable. That is a main reason OSAS is a myth.
 
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peldom10

Banned
#568
May 22, 2020
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#568
Magenta said:
Those who are sealed and of whom Jesus says He will lose none, that nobody can snatch them out of His hand... I believe Jesus means what He says there. Those who fall away think they belong when they really don't. Maybe they have pretty much everyone else fooled too, though not intentionally, of course. They truly believe they belong. Some are in ministry for years and then fall away. They fall away from the faith. Has Jesus lost them, or did they not truly belong to begin with?
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Check your interpretation...that means after judgement and declared saved. Even on earth as ...born again...no one can snatch us out of His hand...but, we can voluntarily depart. It happens daily.
 
phil36

phil36

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#570
Feb 12, 2009
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#570
Magenta said:
Scripture is pretty clear. Those who leave, never belonged in the first place.
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peldom10 said:
That is a non biblical supported conclusion.
People leave their conviction for many different reasons. None of which are justifiable. That is a main reason OSAS is a myth.
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Magenta is correct. The bible even teaches this.

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us" (1 John 2:19).

Some also may seem to fall away only to come back..

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;(g) and, for a time, continue therein:(h) whereby they incur God’s displeasure,(i) and grieve His Holy Spirit,(k) come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts,(l) have their hearts hardened,(m) and their consciences wounded,(n) hurt and scandalize others,(o) and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.(p)

(g) Matt. 26:70, 72, 74.
(h) Ps. 51 title and ver. 14.
(i) Isa. 64:5, 7, 9; II Sam. 11:27.
(k) Eph. 4:30.
(l) Ps. 51:8, 10, 12; Rev. 2:4; Cant. 5:2, 3, 4, 6.
(m) Isa. 63:17; Mark 6:52; Mark 16:14.
(n) Ps. 32:3, 4; Ps. 51:8.
(o) II Sam. 12:14.
(p) Ps. 89:31, 32; I Cor. 11:32.

Westminster confession of Faith.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#571
#571
Lisamn said:
They have fallen away from the faith. We still have free will to believe or not don’t we? No one can snatch us away...unless we ourselves allow it. It’s on you to either deny or confess Christ.

I think that we are talking about 2 different things that happens in scripture. Those who think they are saved but really aren’t and those who are saved and fall away from the faith for a variety of reasons...turning aside to myths...wanting teachers to go along with what their itchy ears want, doctrines of demons and deceitful spirits.
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You are part of the “no one”

if you kid was going to jump off a cliff to commit suicide, would you let go of him? or Would you as a loving father or mother hold tight with all you have, because you love your child?

it’s sad that people think God would let us jump to our death because of some situation which has us in this situation we want to jump.

on the other hand, if we do jump, did God have a hold of us at all? Like John said, they went out from us but were never of us,

not everyone who claimed to be christian are true children.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#572
#572
peldom10 said:
That is a non biblical supported conclusion.
People leave their conviction for many different reasons. None of which are justifiable. That is a main reason OSAS is a myth.
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Ahh, your one of those who think that salvation is based on what you do and not what God does

you think God is going to like you taking credit for his work? You should be worried my friend
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#573
#573
peldom10 said:
Check your interpretation...that means after judgement and declared saved. Even on earth as ...born again...no one can snatch us out of His hand...but, we can voluntarily depart. It happens daily.
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Nope.

no one means no one, including you, are you coming you are not a “one”?

would you let go of your daughter to jump to her death? Just because she wants to?

that’s what you are claiming God does, :(
 
Lisamn

Lisamn

Active member
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Dec 29, 2020
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#574
eternally-gratefull said:
You are part of the “no one”

if you kid was going to jump off a cliff to commit suicide, would you let go of him? or Would you as a loving father or mother hold tight with all you have, because you love your child?

it’s sad that people think God would let us jump to our death because of some situation which has us in this situation we want to jump.

on the other hand, if we do jump, did God have a hold of us at all? Like John said, they went out from us but were never of us,

not everyone who claimed to be christian are true children.
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Do we not still have free will after we believe? God takes that from us to keep us safely with Him? I don’t think so..He didn’t do it with Adam and Eve, the Israelites and He doesn’t do it with us.

Sure not everyone claiming to be a Christian is a true Christian but that’s not 1 Timothy is talking about. It’s talking about people of faith falling away from faith.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#575
Jul 3, 2015
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#575
throughfaith said:
Well let's see : Rom 8
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Romans 8:38-39 + Psalm 91:11 :)
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#576
Jul 3, 2015
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#576
peldom10 said:
Check your interpretation...that means after judgement and declared saved. Even on earth as ...born again...no one can snatch us out of His hand...but, we can voluntarily depart. It happens daily.
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John tells us specific things so we may know we have eternal life = knowing we are saved.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God;
that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



John 10:27-28:)
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#577
Nov 23, 2019
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#577
Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

Yes. However, It is crucial for one to have a biblical understanding of repentance?

Repent/Metanoeo: to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider

Can a man change his own nature or is it the work of God?

2 Corinthians 7:10
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Sorrow given by God the Spirit causes you to think differently. Again, this is the new birth, quickening of the Spirit, the changing of nature and direction.

To repent is to turn from one way to another, the changing of mind, the way of thinking, it is a change of nature. It is NOT just a feeling of remorse. Though once the eyes are opened through the quickening of the spirit you are able to see the wide path you're on and true remorse will accompany you to the narrow path.

God grants repentance.

Acts 5:31
He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18
When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”

2 Timothy 2:25
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

Romans 2:4
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
 
CS1

CS1

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#578
May 23, 2012
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#578
NOV25 said:
Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

Yes. However, It is crucial for one to have a biblical understanding of repentance?

Repent/Metanoeo: to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider

Can a man change his own nature or is it the work of God?

2 Corinthians 7:10
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Sorrow given by God the Spirit causes you to think differently. Again, this is the new birth, quickening of the Spirit, the changing of nature and direction.

To repent is to turn from one way to another, the changing of mind, the way of thinking, it is a change of nature. It is NOT just a feeling of remorse. Though once the eyes are opened through the quickening of the spirit you are able to see the wide path you're on and true remorse will accompany you to the narrow path.

God grants repentance.

Acts 5:31
He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18
When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”

2 Timothy 2:25
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

Romans 2:4
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
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I think you equate those who answer the call and repent means they had a part in being saved as if they somehow saved themselves. No one is saying that.


But one must obey and answer the call to be saved which means you had to do so. IF you think that in some way means you saved yourself, is ridiculous.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#579
Jul 3, 2015
59,935
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#579
peldom10 said:
That is a non biblical supported conclusion.
People leave their conviction for many different reasons. None of which are justifiable. That is a main reason OSAS is a myth.
Click to expand...
LOL. It is Biblically supported. Jeepers. Jesus said He would lose none.

That NO ONE could snatch them away from Him.

But this is going nowhere, especially when you say such false things as bolded above.

Bye.
 
NOV25

NOV25

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Nov 23, 2019
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#580
Salvation is of the Lord. You do nothing, zero, zilch, nada to be born again and once saved you can do nothing to be unsaved, for he who begins a good work in you will finish it.
 
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