Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

[Lisamn]

Go through each and every one of these and try and discount them all:

101 BIBLE REASONS PROVING
ETERNAL SECURITY

I think many of the verses are promises of eternal life...not promises that once you are saved you are always saved....because otherwise we wouldn‘t have verses that say the opposite.

What do you do about verses like these...ignore them?

Romans‬ ‭11:20-22‬ ‭
Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.​

‭‭

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

These believers obviously remembered when they were born of the Spirit. The reason why Peter and John went to Samaria was stated (to lay their hands on the believers that they might receive the Holy Ghost). Similarly, Paul asked the believers at Ephesus if they had received the Holy Ghost, and when he found they hadn't, he laid his hands on them and they were filled.

The Holy Spirit is a quickening (born again) Spirit, The Holy Ghost, which is a functioning work of the Holy Spirit, which is a revelator Spirit WE are first born again by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which causes us to believe in spiritual things, and sometime later we receive the Holy Ghost that reveals truths to us. No one received the Holy Ghost until Christ ascended.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Again , and there is no way round it . SEALED !!!! ......UNTO ......THE ......DAY ......OF .......REDEMPTION. Theres too many clear verses that state eternal security for the believer. like the one above . You don't have any assurance if you make every clear verse on security into " unless " or " if " . The bible is not fighting with itself. I know many believers who can clearly see many verses on eternal security, only to completely undo them because of a few verses taken out of context. Which in doing so is not just a matter of " oh you believe you can't lose salvation but i do " . No the whole understanding of how we are saved and what Jesus said and did is different. Its another Gospel that leads many false converts into the church only to ' fall away ' later , because they are disillusioned..Many a pew sitter is under the impression he's a Christian because he's going to church, praying, fasting , stop sinning ( as if ) and or that he got baptised. So long as his works keep up he.ll be ok so long as he keeps 'repenting '. Yet he really never trusted that Jesus had died for his sins .

Those that have already been born again are then sealed. Being sealed is a stamp of approval, an earnest of their inheritance.,

 

[PennEd]

I think many of the verses are promises of eternal life...not promises that once you are saved you are always saved....because otherwise we wouldn‘t have verses that say the opposite.

What do you do about verses like these...ignore them?

Romans‬ ‭11:20-22‬ ‭
Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.​

‭‭

I see that as a corporate command. Given to the gentiles at large, not to individual gentiles already saved.
Similar in ways to how God gave commands through Moses to all of Israel. Some obeyed and most didn’t.

I think we mistake many passages in Scripture as prescriptive, and not descriptive as they are.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes ISRAEL . Notice it doenst say ' Some of Israel.

All Israel is not of Israel, Rom 9:6.

 

[Lisamn]

I see that as a corporate command. Given to the gentiles at large, not to individual gentiles already saved.
Similar in ways to how God gave commands through Moses to all of Israel. Some obeyed and most didn’t.

I think we mistake many passages in Scripture as prescriptive, and not descriptive as they are.

So, he’s talking to un saved gentiles? He said they were broken off for their unbelief but you stand by your faith. How is he talking to the unsaved? What faith do you think he’s talking about here?

No...its not like that in the New Testament...some obeyed and most didn’t....Is that what Christianity is about to you?

I don’t know what you mean by your last sentence.

 

[PennEd]

So, he’s talking to un saved gentiles? He said they were broken off for their unbelief but you stand by your faith. How is he talking to the unsaved? What faith do you think he’s talking about here?

No...its not like that in the New Testament...some obeyed and most didn’t....Is that what Christianity is about to you?

I don’t know what you mean by your last sentence.

Some he addresses are saved, some think they are and need to evaluate themselves, and some are unsaved and descriptively reading about how a true saved will live.


The exact same thing occurs today. I know many who have read the Bible but don’t believe. So letter to the Romans is for all. The saved, and the unsaved, in the hope that they will become salved.

 

[Lisamn]

Some he addresses are saved, some think they are and need to evaluate themselves, and some are unsaved and descriptively reading about how a true saved will live.


The exact same thing occurs today. I know many who have read the Bible but don’t believe. So letter to the Romans is for all. The saved, and the unsaved, in the hope that they will become salved.

That particular passage was to the saved...Paul tells them to stand by their faith and not be cut off like the Jews. If its not the Christian he is addressing...what faith could Paul be talking about?

 

[PennEd]

That particular passage was to the saved...Paul tells them to stand by their faith and not be cut off like the Jews. If its not the Christian he is addressing...what faith could Paul be talking about?

The Jews were cut off because of unbelief. They didn’t have faith in Jesus and then left it. They never believed in their Messiah to begin with.

 

[Lisamn]

The Jews were cut off because of unbelief. They didn’t have faith in Jesus and then left it. They never believed in their Messiah to begin with.

So you think that Paul is just talking to the Jews and telling them to keep their faith? Why would he do that?

 

[PennEd]

So you think that Paul is just talking to the Jews and telling them to keep their faith? Why would he do that?

No. The Book is addressed mainly to the gentiles. Doesn’t mean it’s not useful for Jews to hear. Just like how the Book addressed to the Jews (Hebrews) is instructful to gentiles. But he is using the Jews in a corporate sense as an example in the passage you quoted.

 

[throughfaith]

Nothing can but you can separate yourself...why do you think the Bible warns us of false teachers and false prophets? Because we are osas? No, because we can be deceived and fall away from the faith..fall away from God. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough after all.

We are warned of false teachers so that we don't hinder the Gospel message by preaching a message of works and conditions. Satan cannot cause someone to lose salvation but he sure can prevent him from reaching others with the right message . What better way than to get each believer self focused on his own works and efforts .
The book of Philippians is all about this .
19¶But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.

20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.

21⁶For they all seek their own , not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

 

[Lisamn]

No. The Book is addressed mainly to the gentiles. Doesn’t mean it’s not useful for Jews to hear. Just like how the Book addressed to the Jews (Hebrews) is instructful to gentiles. But he is using the Jews in a corporate sense as an example in the passage you quoted.

What gentiles do you think Paul wrote to and what faith do you think he wanted them to keep? Do you think unbelievers read Romans and see that and say...Paul doesn’t care if I’m saved...he wants me to keep whatever faith I have?

Why would Paul want the Jews to keep their faith? Wasn’t he an apostle to the Christian faith? Doesn’t he want them saved too?

‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:1-5‬ ‭
I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.​

 

[Lisamn]

We are warned of false teachers so that we don't hinder the Gospel message by preaching a message of works and conditions. Satan cannot cause someone to lose salvation but he sure can prevent him from reaching others with the right message . What better way than to get each believer self focused on his own works and efforts .
The book of Philippians is all about this .
19¶But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.

20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.

21⁶For they all seek their own , not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

Keeping the faith and not falling away isn’t about works but holding on to the faith

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:14‬ ‭
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.
​

The Bible paints another picture that indeed the devil does try to cause someone to fall away and lose their salvation...whose are the deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons?

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
​

 

[throughfaith]

Nothing can but you can separate yourself...why do you think the Bible warns us of false teachers and false prophets? Because we are osas? No, because we can be deceived and fall away from the faith..fall away from God. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough after all.

Fall away? We're not climbing a ladder to heaven .

 

[throughfaith]

What gentiles do you think Paul wrote to and what faith do you think he wanted them to keep? Do you think unbelievers read Romans and see that and say...Paul doesn’t care if I’m saved...he wants me to keep whatever faith I have?

Why would Paul want the Jews to keep their faith? Wasn’t he an apostle to the Christian faith? Doesn’t he want them saved too?

‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:1-5‬ ‭
I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.​

' keep the faith ' ? its not item.

 

[Lisamn]

Fall away? We're not climbing a ladder to heaven .

That’s not what Paul is implying and ultimately God, who was the one who inspired Paul’s words was talking about.

 

[throughfaith]

Keeping the faith and not falling away isn’t about works but holding on to the faith

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:14‬ ‭
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.
​

The Bible paints another picture that indeed the devil does try to cause someone to fall away and lose their salvation...whose are the deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons?

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
​

Well let's see :
Rom 8
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Lisamn]

' keep the faith ' ? its not item.

?

 

[Lisamn]

Well let's see :
Rom 8
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Sure...you can’t be separated from God’s love...but is that the same as saying once you’re saved you’re always saved?

Romans‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

‭‭