Are Christians more accepting of charlatans then we should be?

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CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#181
May 23, 2012
13,006
4,313
113
#181
Scribe said:
I will be a pastor of a church somewhere in a year or two. I have every intention of it growing into a megachurch. I hope that out of it several hundred other megachurches will be birthed. I would not approach ministry without expectations of turning the world upside down with the power of the Holy Ghost. (See Day of Pentecost, 3000 saved = Mega-Church) :love:
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the term Maga Church seems to only apply to those some here do not like :)

So let's look at " Maga Churches and those who have been on TBN, DayStar, etc..



Pastor /Teacher name Church members On TBN or has been those who ask for giving online
John Piper Bethlem Baptist 5000 yes yes

R.C. Sproul "Ligonier ministries" in 1000 schools Yes yes
Reformed Church

John MacArthur Grace Church 3500 YES yes

Chuck Swindoll DTS 50 states and through more than 2,100 outlets worldwide YES yes

David Jeremiah shadow mountain 10,000 YES YES
Community Church




All are ministries that qualify to be called MAGA
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#182
Jul 3, 2015
59,909
29,289
113
#182
CS1 said:
the term Maga Church seems to only apply to those some here do not like :)

So let's look at " Maga Churches and those who have been on TBN, DayStar, etc..

Pastor /Teacher name Church members On TBN or has been those who ask for giving online
John Piper Bethlem Baptist 5000 yes yes

R.C. Sproul "Ligonier ministries" in 1000 schools Yes yes
Reformed Church

John MacArthur Grace Church 3500 YES yes

Chuck Swindoll DTS 50 states and through more than 2,100 outlets worldwide YES yes

David Jeremiah shadow mountain 10,000 YES YES
Community Church

All are ministries that qualify to be called MAGA
Click to expand...
MAGA, or Mega? :unsure:
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#183
May 23, 2012
13,006
4,313
113
#183
CS1 said:
the term Maga Church seems to only apply to those some here do not like :)

So let's look at " Maga Churches and those who have been on TBN, DayStar, etc..



Pastor /Teacher name Church members On TBN or has been those who ask for giving online
John Piper Bethlem Baptist 5000 yes yes

R.C. Sproul "Ligonier ministries" in 1000 schools Yes yes
Reformed Church

John MacArthur Grace Church 3500 YES yes

Chuck Swindoll DTS 50 states and through more than 2,100 outlets worldwide YES yes

David Jeremiah shadow mountain 10,000 YES YES
Community Church




All are ministries that qualify to be called MAGA
Click to expand...
Mega excuses me lol
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#184
#184
CS1 said:
the term Maga Church seems to only apply to those some here do not like :)

So let's look at " Maga Churches and those who have been on TBN, DayStar, etc..



Pastor /Teacher name Church members On TBN or has been those who ask for giving online
John Piper Bethlem Baptist 5000 yes yes

R.C. Sproul "Ligonier ministries" in 1000 schools Yes yes
Reformed Church

John MacArthur Grace Church 3500 YES yes

Chuck Swindoll DTS 50 states and through more than 2,100 outlets worldwide YES yes

David Jeremiah shadow mountain 10,000 YES YES
Community Church




All are ministries that qualify to be called MAGA
Click to expand...
Kenneth Copeland, Windal Archy, Joyce meyer, creflo dollar, Steve furdick, td jakes, Joel osteen, rock warren, benny hinn, pat robertson, bethel church (forgot his name), and a whole host of others which make up a significant majority.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#185
May 23, 2012
13,006
4,313
113
#185
Blackpowderduelist said:
Kenneth Copeland, Windal Archy, Joyce meyer, creflo dollar, Steve furdick, td jakes, Joel osteen, rock warren, benny hinn, pat robertson, bethel church (forgot his name), and a whole host of others which make up a significant majority.
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all of them have in common the very same things as the list I provide and all of them are Millionaires.
There has to be something that contrasts them other than being Megachurches?
 
shittim

shittim

Senior Member
#186
Dec 16, 2016
13,759
7,756
113
#186
Blackpowderduelist said:
I think you speaking from bias not experience.
Because it is academic what is written in the book of James which is studied in the liturgy, as well as in Bible study classes as it comes up as a subject, and Lutherans tend to be quite literal about scripture.
However as in any church there are those who don't pay attention or study or learn.
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speaking from experience and a lifetime of relationship with members- the practice of the pastor declaring his ability to forgive sins is one aspect I don't find in scripture.
For all the 'teaching" and "learning" they offer, and I recall sitting next to a man whose bible was 6 inches thick and mentioning to him we could write "seek justice, practice mercy and walk humbly with your Lord" on a 3x5 card and it would take a lifetime to walk it out.
He is the pastor who I have been in conversation with when Holy Spirit manifests, the same and only Holy Spirit who Jesus died to make available to us and desires we walk in the power of, just as He, the 12, the 70, and onward to today. The same Holy Spirit who manifested in Peter to the point the Jews knew they could lay out their sick and as he passed by the manifest presence of Holy Spirit emanating from him would bring healing to them.
Each and every time I see him and pray with him we both experience the manifestation of Holy Spirit power yet I know of no one of his flock besides him who walks in this power. This should not be withheld from the flock, freely we were given, we are instructed to freely give.
All of the members I take by the hand and pray for experience His power and healing, yet for the lifetime they have been members they have not been taught how to walk in His presence but rather they hold to am outward form and deny his power, just as Jesus clearly told us of this last of the last days age.
best wishes
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#187
#187
CS1 said:
all of them have in common the very same things as the list I provide and all of them are Millionaires.
There has to be something that contrasts them other than being Megachurches?
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Other than Heterodoxy.
Majority is what sets standards and I said standard.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#188
#188
shittim said:
speaking from experience and a lifetime of relationship with members- the practice of the pastor declaring his ability to forgive sins is one aspect I don't find in scripture.
For all the 'teaching" and "learning" they offer, and I recall sitting next to a man whose bible was 6 inches thick and mentioning to him we could write "seek justice, practice mercy and walk humbly with your Lord" on a 3x5 card and it would take a lifetime to walk it out.
He is the pastor who I have been in conversation with when Holy Spirit manifests, the same and only Holy Spirit who Jesus died to make available to us and desires we walk in the power of, just as He, the 12, the 70, and onward to today. The same Holy Spirit who manifested in Peter to the point the Jews knew they could lay out their sick and as he passed by the manifest presence of Holy Spirit emanating from him would bring healing to them.
Each and every time I see him and pray with him we both experience the manifestation of Holy Spirit power yet I know of no one of his flock besides him who walks in this power. This should not be withheld from the flock, freely we were given, we are instructed to freely give.
All of the members I take by the hand and pray for experience His power and healing, yet for the lifetime they have been members they have not been taught how to walk in His presence but rather they hold to am outward form and deny his power, just as Jesus clearly told us of this last of the last days age.
best wishes
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That hasn't been my experience.

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”
John 20:22‭-‬23 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.20.22-23.ESV
 
shittim

shittim

Senior Member
#189
Dec 16, 2016
13,759
7,756
113
#189
Perhaps you will grow into it, our lives are a process of continuing to be conformed to the image of the Son.
Far too often people "arrive" at salvation and rest there. At the Baptism of John the voice of the Father spoke " this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased", even at that point, without doing anything in ministry, the Father was well pleased in how He had lived His life.
Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, as we are all required, He modeled how we are to live to please the Father so that we can hear "well done, good and faithful servant" on that day we stand before Him.
Luke2- 45-52-
45When they could not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem to search for Him. 46Finally, after three days they found Him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47And all who heard Him were astounded at His understanding and His answers.

48When His parents saw Him, they were astonished. “Child, why have You done this to us?” His mother asked. “Your father and I have been anxiously searching for You.”

49“Why were you looking for Me?” He asked. “Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s househ?” 50But they did not understand the statement He was making to them.

51Then He went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But His mother treasured up all these things in her heart.

52And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

Blessings
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#190
#190
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
Matthew 18:15‭-‬20 ESV

Also Jesus giving authority to forgive sins.
 
K

KingdomBrat

Banned
#191
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
#191
CS1 said:
all of them have in common the very same things as the list I provide and all of them are Millionaires.
There has to be something that contrasts them other than being Megachurches?
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Several differences and those Churches are known for attacking one another based upon Doctrines. Whoever's view the audience likes best gets their support. A Battle of doctrines and their own little myths.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#192
Jul 31, 2013
37,780
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#192
goanna said:
An old cowboy preacher I know told me once that no one wants the sword of the spirit used on them, but handed to them.
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we should each wield it, in order that 'iron sharpen iron' ;)

no one among us is meant to have monopoly on the Word or the Spirit
 
Blade

Blade

Well-known member
#195
Nov 19, 2019
1,776
624
113
#195
You gave me love when no one gave me a prayer.. thats why I call you savior thats why I call you friend. You touched my heart you touched my soul helped me start over...thats why I love you Jesus... you gave me love when no one gave me a prayer.

I was going to say I know of them but I don't know them. So will I pray for them? YES! <---this is what I was just about to say and .. this song (BJ Thomas) played. Is this what Gods people do? No what GOOD do they do? Should not we the body of Christ the light in this world know this first? No with out looking it up what GOOD do you know they do?

See I seem to be called to stand before the Father ALLOT haha...pfft seems I am always doing something wrong. My accuser.. many times is right yet.. its just not exactly true.... every time..... every time He's there.. the king of kings lord of lords standing in for me.. paid it all. See I know His grace... I KNOW His mercy...sorry was already thinking about this from the last thread. Why My heart sings (Charles Billingsley)

Really doesn't take much to quench the sweet holy Spirit. Like it or not they belong to a GOD... so if error, wrong sinning what ever.. lets pray. To watch all repent give Him praise and glory forever!
 
UCA4J

UCA4J

Banned
#196
Nov 15, 2020
1,897
362
83
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
#196
CS1 said:
the term Maga Church seems to only apply to those some here do not like :)

So let's look at " Maga Churches and those who have been on TBN, DayStar, etc..



Pastor /Teacher name Church members On TBN or has been those who ask for giving online
John Piper Bethlem Baptist 5000 yes yes

R.C. Sproul "Ligonier ministries" in 1000 schools Yes yes
Reformed Church

John MacArthur Grace Church 3500 YES yes

Chuck Swindoll DTS 50 states and through more than 2,100 outlets worldwide YES yes

David Jeremiah shadow mountain 10,000 YES YES
Community Church




All are ministries that qualify to be called MAGA
Click to expand...
just wondering, are those pastors legit ?
 
UCA4J

UCA4J

Banned
#197
Nov 15, 2020
1,897
362
83
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
#197
Blackpowderduelist said:
Kenneth Copeland, Windal Archy, Joyce meyer, creflo dollar, Steve furdick, td jakes, Joel osteen, rock warren, benny hinn, pat robertson, bethel church (forgot his name), and a whole host of others which make up a significant majority.
Click to expand...
are these pastors you have mentioned, are they legit ?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#198
Jul 31, 2013
37,780
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#198
1ofthem said:
Soul winning by trickery and deceiving others is not soul winning. In order to have soul winning, you need to have someone preaching the full gospel. Not just the parts that are pleasing to the flesh, but the whole thing. The full gospel is not popular because there in, we are told to deny the flesh, not to be greedy, be prepared to suffer...etc.
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i.e. the thing is to make disciples. not headcounts.

lots of people respond to emotional music and oration. lots of people have emotional reactions to performances and speeches purposefully designed to evoke emotional responses. lots of people are willing to say some magic words ((and yes to open their wallets)) when they've just watched a professionally crafted show carefully and intelligently contrived to arouse such a reaction.

that's where we get problems with 'once-saved-always-saved' is because many people equate salvation with having agreed to take certain actions like raising a hand, filling out a comment card, or walking down an aisle after being subjected to a thing like this that's designed to elicit such actions.
but salvation is a supernatural event not a movie or tv show that manipulates you into crying. it is a working of God, not the result of clever people cleverly bending your will into doing something or agreeing to something in the aftermath of having your heart-strings played with. it's in that context, the supernatural context, that true salvation is received and can never be lost. not in the context of a light and sound show messing with your brain and your endorphins, but the context of the Spirit of God moving over your soul.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#199
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
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#199
CS1 said:
the term Maga Church seems to only apply to those some here do not like :)

So let's look at " Maga Churches and those who have been on TBN, DayStar, etc..



Pastor /Teacher name Church members On TBN or has been those who ask for giving online
John Piper Bethlem Baptist 5000 yes yes

R.C. Sproul "Ligonier ministries" in 1000 schools Yes yes
Reformed Church

John MacArthur Grace Church 3500 YES yes

Chuck Swindoll DTS 50 states and through more than 2,100 outlets worldwide YES yes

David Jeremiah shadow mountain 10,000 YES YES
Community Church




All are ministries that qualify to be called MAGA
Click to expand...

CS1 is right here, being a ''MAGA' church doesn't mean they are not a faithful church.... and asking for money is not necessarily a bad thing either. What is important is what they teach. There are many big and small churches who have faulty teaching, or teach another gospel.

I have to say the MAGA church gave me a laugh.. is that a church in a Trump building:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:(y)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#200
Jul 31, 2013
37,780
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#200
Scribe said:
1 Cor 16:2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
God told us all that by putting it in the bible :)
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context of 1 Cor. 16:2 is a collection for the poor, heavily persecuted believers in Jerusalem. Paul wasn't even going to pick up donations and bring them there; he instructed that someone from the group in Corinth be chosen themselves to be entrusted with it. see verse 3.

notice how he doesn't want there to be any collecting of money going on while he's present? why not? wouldn't people feel more compelled to give during all the excitement while Paul was there?
 
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