The Galations incident.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S

Scribe

Guest
#21
Ah! In my understanding, belief without feelings isn't really belief--i.e., belief is a feeling. Honest question: how do I believe without feelings? I really do want to do this.
To agree with God that His word is true whether you feel it or not is not a feeling it is a choice.

You choose to believe and the feelings do eventually come, I would assume they would.

It is natural to get excited about the fact that you are going to live forever. And you might have a feeling come over you for a brief moment as you contemplate living for 14 billion years in eternity and it still will not be over, because it is never ending. You can get a rush of blood to the brain and a butterfly in your stomach just thinking about it.
That would be a "feeling" but you believe it to be true because the bible says so not because you felt it. Your feelings follow what you think about don't they?
 

GreatestIsLove

Junior Member
May 16, 2016
1
0
1
#22
I can sympathize. If you aren't being persecuted by other Christians then you just aren't gathering with other Christians enough. This is eventually going to happen with everyone.
 
Dec 25, 2020
35
7
8
#23
I'm sorry, Scribe. I'm afraid that I am talking about oranges, while you are responding about apples. What I mean is that feelings are part and parcel of belief: feelings of confidence and assurance. If I say to myself "God loves me.", or "Christ died for me", I don't feel that confidence and assurance (Hebrews 11). I do believe that God's Word is true, but my feelings don't, sadly, often fall into line with what I think. To address the most obvious point, I have had long experience with being excluded from "whoever" (John 3:16)
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,768
7,767
113
#24
Not sure you or we can trust "feelings"
 
Dec 25, 2020
35
7
8
#25
Not sure you or we can trust "feelings"
I'm not sure what you mean by trusting feelings, Shittim. My reading of Hebrews 11 is that faith requires both intellectual acknowledgement, and feelings of confidence and assurance. If my understanding is faulty, please tell me, but also tell me where and how. I'm told that I take things too literally, but I don't know how else to take what is said other than literally. Sometimes I think that I show symptoms of autistic spectrum.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,768
7,767
113
#26
From Genesis one we were meant to be in relationship with the Creator, we were separated by sin, in the old testament His spirit was given to individuals, when Jesus care He imparted to the 12, they in turn imparted to the 70, building up His ecclesia, after Jesus atoning work at the cross on Pentecost Holy Spirit was given to His Own. Staying in that personal relationship we are promised we will be led in ALL truth. Be careful stay in that relationship. The adversary fights against this and can use the emotions as well as giving us doubt such as thinking we have illness, emotional troubles, etc.
 
Dec 25, 2020
35
7
8
#27
From Genesis one we were meant to be in relationship with the Creator, we were separated by sin, in the old testament His spirit was given to individuals, when Jesus care He imparted to the 12, they in turn imparted to the 70, building up His ecclesia, after Jesus atoning work at the cross on Pentecost Holy Spirit was given to His Own. Staying in that personal relationship we are promised we will be led in ALL truth. Be careful stay in that relationship. The adversary fights against this and can use the emotions as well as giving us doubt such as thinking we have illness, emotional troubles, etc.
I agree, but you may want to look up autistic spectrum, before you toss it off as imaginary. Knowing the signs and symptoms will also be useful when dealing with those who have it.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,768
7,767
113
#29
I didn't brush it off, Jesus didn't brush anything off either. Go ahead and look up anything you want. I will lookup His guidance and direction.
 
Dec 25, 2020
35
7
8
#30
To agree with God that His word is true whether you feel it or not is not a feeling it is a choice.

You choose to believe and the feelings do eventually come, I would assume they would.

It is natural to get excited about the fact that you are going to live forever. And you might have a feeling come over you for a brief moment as you contemplate living for 14 billion years in eternity and it still will not be over, because it is never ending. You can get a rush of blood to the brain and a butterfly in your stomach just thinking about it.
That would be a "feeling" but you believe it to be true because the bible says so not because you felt it. Your feelings follow what you think about don't they?
Usually, my feelings are simultaneous with my thoughts, and not always what you think that they should be.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,768
7,767
113
#31
I put down a link to a Sunday broadcast of a ministry I have gotten more from than any other, praise is going on right now, soon there will be the teaching.
I have had a great success at keeping a picture of our redeemer in the picture frame of my mind, it is a way that helps me keep my mind stayed on Him.
 
Dec 25, 2020
35
7
8
#32
I didn't brush it off, Jesus didn't brush anything off either. Go ahead and look up anything you want. I will lookup His guidance and direction.
Sorry, shittim, I misunderstood. I have been trying to find His guidance and direction, and failing to find anything pertinent to my present, long-term situation. That is why I joined the site. I am already doing most of what you recommend, but I seem to be unable, in and of myself, to forget about what happened with Mike, and just ignore the implications.
 
Dec 25, 2020
35
7
8
#33
I'm sorry to have offended you, shittim and Scribe. I never intended to be a problem to anyone. Unless someone says something to the contrary, I am going to leave the site, since, as it is now, I am not doing either myself or, more importantly, anyone else, any good.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,984
29,342
113
#35
When I read Hebrews, faith is described using feeling words: "confidence" and "assurance". How do I practice faith without those feelings?
Confidence and assurance in Christ is fully trusting Him to keep His promises, no matter what... and regardless of any feelings that may seem to contradict and/or challenge your ability to have faith due to adverse life circumstances. Those situations highlight our lack of faith, and are teaching us something valuable. You can practice and strengthen your faith by counting your blessings and always praising God.



Matthew 11:28-30:)
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,768
7,767
113
#36
not offended , friend. The more we focus on the Lord, the less the adversary can bring up memories that can rob us of our peace.
Hope to see you again.
best wishes
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#37
I'm sorry to have offended you, shittim and Scribe. I never intended to be a problem to anyone. Unless someone says something to the contrary, I am going to leave the site, since, as it is now, I am not doing either myself or, more importantly, anyone else, any good.
I am not offended. I thought the conversation was good.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#38
I'm sorry to have offended you, shittim and Scribe. I never intended to be a problem to anyone. Unless someone says something to the contrary, I am going to leave the site, since, as it is now, I am not doing either myself or, more importantly, anyone else, any good.
Hi Forlorn!

Obviously, you were affected by what that mentor told you regarding not seeing any fruits of the Spirit in you, which was wrong of him to do so. If anything, he was a stumbling block! You need to understand that He had no right to sit in the seat of the Holy Spirit.

As I made known to you, bearing fruit is a life-long process. It is the believer taking on the characteristics/nature of God as we continue from faith to faith. If you were to give up now, you would be doing exactly what Satan wanted by sending that man to you, which is to turn you away from your faith. Just fyi, neither you nor any other believer is worthy of salvation or eternal life. We were chosen by God to be made holy and to inherit eternal life through His Son, before the world even began. So, if you are basing your worthiness on your own efforts, then you are correct in that, you are not worthy. But if you are trusting in Christ as your righteousness, then you are worthy, because Christ is worthy whom you are believing in.

When God sees believers, He sees them through the spectacles of Christ. The Father sees the fulfillment of the law, His wrath for sin against us has been satisfied and righteous blood has been shed on our behalf. For scripture states that unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins. Christ satisfied all of God's requirements, which is applied to those who believe in Him.

All that said, instead of leaving this site, you ought to stay for the fellowship and support. Things are going to take place in our lives that are going to try and knock us off our stand in faith. Always be on your guard for this, because these attempts may come through financial or physical or other life problems and all that to get you to stop trusting in Christ. We who are in Christ are to be prepared to be persecuted and even put to death while keeping our testimony of Christ. Therefore, everything else is less. Think about all that Job went through when His faith was being tested. Or Paul and the other disciples. Paul received 39 lashes five different times, beat with rods, stoned, ship wrecked, imprisoned. Was this because God was angry with him? No! It was because he was suffering for his faith in Christ. And we should always be prepared to do the same. So now, make up your mind to do the following:

"take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness arrayed, and with your feet fitted with the readiness of the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."

Don't let what that man said or your own feelings knock you off your stand in faith, but be even more strengthened
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#39
I'm sorry to have offended you, shittim and Scribe. I never intended to be a problem to anyone. Unless someone says something to the contrary, I am going to leave the site, since, as it is now, I am not doing either myself or, more importantly, anyone else, any good.
I think that if you have autism or any kind of mental Challenge that Mike guy should have supported you and born with you in your weakness as the scripture tells him to do for the weak or feeble minded among us. His failure to so and to put upon you an expectation you were not able meet suggest that he is the one not showing evidence of the Spirit working in his life and not being obedient to the scriptures. Maybe someone should tell him so and send him on his own quest to find assurance.
 
Dec 25, 2020
35
7
8
#40
Thank you, friends. Sorry that it has taken me so long to respond. It has been a mental battle over the past few days. If you are still willing to talk to me, then I would like to stay.
Please understand that when I question what you folks say, or give my own experience, it isn't out of disrespect. I am just trying to elicit a deeper, more thoughtful explanation, or clear up an area of misunderstanding. I know that my apparent stubborness can be exasperating, but I am completely lost at sea with some concepts. I am supposed to be in the top 98th percentile of intelligence, but, most of the time, that and $1.50 will buy me a new liter bottle of water ;) . As I told shittim, I often show symptoms of Autistic Spectrum--formerly known as Asperger's Syndrome. One of my co-workers used to call me "the Rain Man". So I need a lot of things explained to me that most people take as axiomatic.