Plea not to receive mark of the beast because of waiting for rapture

Enduring to the end of what?

The wrath of God ???

First of all, the gathering of the church is not a theory. We can read of the event in John 14:1-3, I Thess.4:13-18 and I Cor.15:50-53 & Rev.3:10. Therefore, it is not a theory and it should not be referred to as such. What is in question is the timing of this event, i.e. taking place prior to God's wrath being poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, in the middle of God's wrath or after the completion of God's wrath. Regarding this, the wall of scripture that separates believers from being on the earth during the time of God's wrath is that Jesus already satisfied God's wrath on behalf of every believer. Therefore, since it has been satisfied, God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer, but on those who do not have Christ:

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

As the scripture states, believers have eternal life. And those who reject Christ, God's wrath remains on them. Therefore, when the Lord appears to gather His church, those who have continued to reject Him will be caught in that time period of God's wrath. The Lord is not going to have His bride beat up first and then come and get her afterwards.

There will be a group of who will become believers after the church has been gathered which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language, who will also be caught in this time period of wrath, with many of them being killed because of their testimony of Christ and the world of God, who will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark. These are those who will come out of the great tribulation period. These are the saints with whom the beast will wage war against and conquer during that last 3 1/2 years. During God's time of wrath, the church will have been judged in heaven at the Bema Seat of Christ and will have attended the wedding of the Lamb. After the 7th bowl been poured out, which competes God's wrath. Then the Lord will return to the earth with His bride who will be following the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing their white linen, white and clean which they will have received at the wedding of the Lamb.

"The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses (down to the earth). And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty."



We are also told to 'contend for the faith' and that:

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the servant of God a may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Regarding the Lord's appearing and our being gathered to Him, We are told to comfort one another with those words. We are also told to watch for the blessed hope, the appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Consequently, if we were to go through the same wrath as the wicked, then there would be no comfort, nor would it be a blessed hope.

Many come to the conclusion of mid-or post-trib because they don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath upon this earth. If they did, they would not interpret the church as being here during that time. Also, if they understood the legal precedent that Jesus already took upon himself God's wrath that all believers deserve, then they would not have us going through God's wrath, because they would conclude that it has already been satisfied.

Is that like the Hebrews being raptured, before the plagues fell upon Egypt?

Enduring to the end = keeping their testimony of Jesus and the word of God, not worshiping the beast, his image nor receiving his mark. The enduring to the end is either to the point of death or until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. In other words, keeping their faith and not loving their lives so much as to shrink away from death. This is referring to the great tribulation saints, not the church.

Noah got on the ark, and the earth flooded. He wasnt spared tribulation he was just in the ark and not in the water, drowning.
Im sure Noah wasnt that happy to see his entire village and everything around him completely destroyed....

Really, that's because you have never met me. And after reading all your comments I have the following question for you? How is it you fit through doorways with an ego like yours?

Here's what I'm going to do, I'm going to raise four "Biblical" points and see how you address them? Btw, there are other points but for now let's see how you deall with the following.

I'm going to start at Matthew 24 with the person who started the whole thing, Jesus Christ. His disciples ask Him at Matthew 24:3 the following question? "And He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sigh of Your coming, and the end of the age/world."

If you read the verses that follow, (which are all things happening today and even getting worse) you come to Matthew 24:15. "Therefore (why is it there for?) when you see the Abomination of Desolation which was splem of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (let the reader understand). Or, comprehend what is meant by these words I am telling you.

Jesus then goes on to explain what will happen to those during this tribulation time, verses 16-28. Verse 29, "But immediately the tribulation of those days etc. What happens? Verses 30-31, who appears in the clouds and what happens? Who's gathered from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." When does the pretrib rapture occur?

Point #2. 2 Thessolonians 1. The Apostle Paul says at verse 4, "therefore, we ourselves speak proudly of you among the churches of God for you perseverance and faith in the midst of all your persecutions and afflictions which you endure." Vs5, "This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering."

Now watch what Paul says next. Vs6, "For after allit is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you. Vs7, and to give RELIEF/REST (WHEN) the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire." Notice now how the Apostle Paul backs up what Jesus stated at Matthew 24:15 here at 2 Thesalonians 2:1-3. Vs3, "Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS IS REVEALED, the son of destruction."

Point #3 is a short point. Hebrews 9:28, "so Christ also, having been offered ONCE to bear the sins of many, shall APPEAR A SECOND time for salvation or deliverance without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him." Where does the pretrib rapture fit in here?

Point #4. This is from 1 John 2, chapter two. Vs16-17. Please notice at vs16 the Apostle John mentions the world, as he does at verse 17 where he says, "the world is passing away." At vs18 John says, "Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen, from this we know that it is the last hour."

From this we see that somebody taught them that "antichrist" singular is coming. Even now there are many antichrist so here's my question? From the context John is "expecting" the antichrist and letting the other Christians know to look out for him. If the pretrib rapture is true then why would John tell us to look out for the antichrist if you guys are not going to be here? None of this is hard to understand if you just follow the order of the events. I was a pretribber myself for many years until I came to my senses and researched the the thing. I'm talking about close to 55 years ago. I attended way back then the Calvary Chapel Church even to this day. Chuck Smith was the pastor and he taught the pretrib rapture.

We did not fight about it but was joyful that Jesus Christ was going to return for His church. If you want to hold to that view, fine. But on the other hand we should respect those who have a different view. Nobody, in their right mind wants to be around when the antichrist appears but we should be look out for him as John said instead of pinning your hopes on disappearing and eating the Lamb's supper while the whole world goes to hell in a handbasket. Btw, that's something else that never made sense to me.

In God the Son,
bluto

Actually it says 8 were saved.

If you think Noah is postrib rapture model,it is not.

Noah did not depart postjudgement ,neither did lot.

noahs family
just saying cos Jesus said. the end of the world would be like Noah's flood but with fire.
we dont depart either, heaven comes to earth. Read the last chapter of revelation again.

noahs family
just saying cos Jesus said. the end of the world would be like Noah's flood but with fire.
we dont depart either, heaven comes to earth. Read the last chapter of revelation again.

In your thesis above could you point out what your point is?

Are you kidding me? What do you think my point is? It's based on this statement of yours.
"I have never seen, in 38 years of study/ debate, anyone successfully defend a postrib rapture.
It is that far fetched."

I gave you just four points (out others I could provide) that support a posttribulation view, suppose you refute them by telling me where the verses are in error or my understanding is in error. In my 59 years of being a Christian, I've learned (finally) to keep an open mind and am more than willing to change my view if and only if the evidence says otherwise. So again, please refute what Jesus said and what the Apostles Paul and John stated.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Dispensationalism's Pre-Trib Rapture Is A Lie!

The main scripture used by supporters of this teaching is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming)(Last Day) resurrection

Is a resurrection of the believer seen below in 1 Thess 4:15-17 100% yes

Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught, 100% yes

Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught 100% yes

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Well fellas @Truth7t7 @Blain I do remember trying to figuring it out and it seemed to me that mid trib. was the most likely and pre trib. the least. So we have a 3 way stalemate now. I've heard and read them all but like ThD. Martin, I'll admit that I don't know. Jesus said; " King James Bible Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." So if even Jesus didn't know what makes us think that we're so smart? I even used King James for you guys so NIV or BSB wouldn't be an issue.

I wasn't talking about the rapture, you always claim dispensationalism is alie and though she is not able to be online very often I learned that Angela also believes this, I respect her and hold her in high regard but even with her I cannot simply believe something without evidence however she is very busy constantly and so is unable to do this.

You always claim it is a lie but never offer the evidence for it why is it a lie how it can be proven to be a lie is it biblical these are things I need to know before I accept your claim

Again
What is the point in your 3 page thesis.?
You are so random, even when challenged,there is really nothing to see.

It like "well I am just right ,no power points needed,i just say i am right"
Must work in you circles.

How about your main power point???

Got one???

Really, that's because you have never met me. And after reading all your comments I have the following question for you? How is it you fit through doorways with an ego like yours?

Here's what I'm going to do, I'm going to raise four "Biblical" points and see how you address them? Btw, there are other points but for now let's see how you deall with the following.

I'm going to start at Matthew 24 with the person who started the whole thing, Jesus Christ. His disciples ask Him at Matthew 24:3 the following question? "And He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sigh of Your coming, and the end of the age/world."

If you read the verses that follow, (which are all things happening today and even getting worse) you come to Matthew 24:15. "Therefore (why is it there for?) when you see the Abomination of Desolation which was splem of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (let the reader understand). Or, comprehend what is meant by these words I am telling you.

Jesus then goes on to explain what will happen to those during this tribulation time, verses 16-28. Verse 29, "But immediately the tribulation of those days etc. What happens? Verses 30-31, who appears in the clouds and what happens? Who's gathered from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." When does the pretrib rapture occur?

Point #2. 2 Thessolonians 1. The Apostle Paul says at verse 4, "therefore, we ourselves speak proudly of you among the churches of God for you perseverance and faith in the midst of all your persecutions and afflictions which you endure." Vs5, "This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering."

Now watch what Paul says next. Vs6, "For after allit is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you. Vs7, and to give RELIEF/REST (WHEN) the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire." Notice now how the Apostle Paul backs up what Jesus stated at Matthew 24:15 here at 2 Thesalonians 2:1-3. Vs3, "Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS IS REVEALED, the son of destruction."

Point #3 is a short point. Hebrews 9:28, "so Christ also, having been offered ONCE to bear the sins of many, shall APPEAR A SECOND time for salvation or deliverance without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him." Where does the pretrib rapture fit in here?

Point #4. This is from 1 John 2, chapter two. Vs16-17. Please notice at vs16 the Apostle John mentions the world, as he does at verse 17 where he says, "the world is passing away." At vs18 John says, "Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen, from this we know that it is the last hour."

From this we see that somebody taught them that "antichrist" singular is coming. Even now there are many antichrist so here's my question? From the context John is "expecting" the antichrist and letting the other Christians know to look out for him. If the pretrib rapture is true then why would John tell us to look out for the antichrist if you guys are not going to be here? None of this is hard to understand if you just follow the order of the events. I was a pretribber myself for many years until I came to my senses and researched the the thing. I'm talking about close to 55 years ago. I attended way back then the Calvary Chapel Church even to this day. Chuck Smith was the pastor and he taught the pretrib rapture.

We did not fight about it but was joyful that Jesus Christ was going to return for His church. If you want to hold to that view, fine. But on the other hand we should respect those who have a different view. Nobody, in their right mind wants to be around when the antichrist appears but we should be look out for him as John said instead of pinning your hopes on disappearing and eating the Lamb's supper while the whole world goes to hell in a handbasket. Btw, that's something else that never made sense to me.

In God the Son,
bluto

The Lie of dispensationalism in a pre-trib rapture is before your face, you reject this factual truth, there wont be any thing presented to satisfy you, it's my opinion you are pre-determined in your belief.

Dispensationalism's Pre-Trib Rapture Is A Lie!

The main scripture used by supporters of this teaching is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming)(Last Day) resurrection

Is a resurrection of the believer seen below in 1 Thess 4:15-17 100% yes

Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught, 100% yes

Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught 100% yes

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.