Is the end near?

Why do you think there is a time difference mentioned between those who are dead rising first than those who are alive? Is it because there are a few minutes or less in difference? Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up to be together with those who will have earlier been caught up to Christ. Do we remain for a few seconds, minutes or hours after the martyrs are caught up first?

Are you equating "the man child" / "the male [G730 - arsena/arren]" [singular] with "the remnant/rest [plural] of her seed" (as the same entity/person/persons)??


[I see "the remnant/rest [PLURAL]" to correlate with Micah 5:3 (distinct from v.2 which refers to Jesus' birth [I do not say Rev12 refers to it])... May the readers note the word "UNTIL" in v.3 of Micah 5... I do not equate these PLURALS with "the man child / the male [SINGULAR]" who had been "caught up" before this point/before when v.17 (of Rev12) unfolds upon the earth]

Why do you think there is a time difference mentioned between those who are dead rising first than those who are alive? Is it because there are a few minutes or less in difference? Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up to be together with those who will have earlier been caught up to Christ. Do we remain for a few seconds, minutes or hours after the martyrs are caught up first?

In the twinkling of an eye, (Blink)

1 Corinthians 15:52KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

In Revelation 4:1 John is called up to be shown things which must come hereafter. As such Revelation 12 written circa 95 AD is not describing a recent historical event of Jesus' birth. The travailing woman are today's double minded Christians, who represent nearly all Christians today, who will either fall away during the great tribulation when the Lord shakes the earth as well as heaven (Hebrews 12:26-27), or will not be shaken out, and will instead at some point during the great tribulation become singularly minded on the Spirit.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

I agree we are at the time of the end, the next event I believe will be Daniel's 70 literal weeks to start

When the command goes out to build the wall and street in Jerusalem,the 70 weeks start,7 weeks of planning, 62 weeks of building, the 70th week the Antichrist is revealed,the 3.5 year tribulation starts.

As I have shown, I believe in a future 3.5 year tribulation, that starts at the revealing of the Antichrist, and the abomination takes place.

I believe the two Witnesses will stand before the beast/antichrist for the entire time of the 3.5 years, bringing all plagues as Often as they will, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

As seen in Rev 11, when these two Witnesses finish their testimony and are killed the final hours of earth's existence unfolds as they rise to heaven after 3.5 days dead, eaethquake, fear, as the second coming takes place in final fire in judgemnt, the earth is dissolved,the new heaven, earth, jerusalem are revealed for eternity in the twinkling of an eye.

There will be no future Millennium on this earth,its gone

That amillennial apostate Bruce Gore said the exact same thing to me when he attempted to denounce my position. That poor man in all of his brilliance was truly clueless. And I have to tell you that man was scholarly, erudite, refined, prestigious, credentialed....The works. He knew his Greek he knew his Hebrew. A life time trial lawyer. Smart guy.

Despite all of this the guy actually believed in a 215 year Egyptian sojourn. Seriously. The same ridiculous mistake that the rabbis made. My attempts to show him that the Bible clearly indicates a 430 years sojourn was dismissed with no legitimate reason.

His complete failure at understanding end time eschatology is ruinous. Hopelessly unintelligible.

Such is the fate of the amillennialist. Willfully denying Israel their prophesied redemption leads to Spiritual blindness I've seen it 1000 times.

Here I do see things different than you. The first 69 weeks lead up to the Lord and his crucifixion, which is then separated by two millennia from the last week in which the abomination of desolation appears and forms a covenant with many for this final 70th week. As the first 69 weeks include the return of the Jews from Babylon to the rebuilding of Jerusalem's streets, up until the Lord is crucified which took place over 483 years, each day of the 69 weeks is then recognized as a year and not as literal days. Likewise the last week in which the abomination of desolation forms a covenant with many for a week is seven years, and not a literal seven day period.

In Revelation 4:1 John is called up to be shown things which must come hereafter.

As such Revelation 12 written circa 95 AD is not describing a recent historical event of Jesus' birth.

The travailing woman are today's double minded Christians, who represent nearly all Christians today, who will either fall away during the great tribulation when the Lord shakes the earth as well as heaven (Hebrews 12:26-27), or will not be shaken out, and will instead at some point during the great tribulation become singularly minded on the Spirit.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

On what ground do you call him an apostate? I wasn't aware that he had denounced Christ.

Luigi, I believe (DivineWaterMark) is a (Full Preterist) that denies a future bodily resurrection of the believer and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens?

Divinewatermark, correct me if I'm wrong, it's what I believe you have established in previous discussions?

Agreed.


If you'll notice what I had put: "Micah 5:3 (distinct from v.2 which refers to Jesus' birth [I do not say Rev12 refers to it])..."



I disagree that "the woman" of Rev12 refers to "the Church which is His body" (any and all believers of "this present age"--all who are saved in this present age"... see Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence])... The "woman" who "FLEES" seems to be equated with "them which be in Judaea" at the mid-point of the trib, per Matt24:16,15-21 [which kicks off "the GREAT tribulation," i.e. the second HALF of it).

But I agree that "the man child / the male [arsena/arren]" is not referring to Jesus' birth.

However, v.13 DOES say, "[the woman] which HAD BROUGHT FORTH the male [G730 - arsena/arren]"... meaning, that she "HAD BROUGHT FORTH" PRIOR TO this mid-trib point in the chronology.


A verse I'm often pointing out, myself. (4:1)
It correlates with Rev1:19c and 1:1 where 1:1 says "things which must come to pass [<--comp. 1:19c and 4:1] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (<--hold that thought)... so that everything after 4:1 (thru chpt 19, His RETURN to the earth) refers to the 7-yr tribulation period events.

But I would also point out how the "24 elders" (in 5:9) say, "hast redeemed US to God... out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"... and they are shown sitting on "thrones" with "crowns/stephanous of gold" and are wearing the very thing that was mentioned in 3:5 (in the "NOW" section [chpts 2-3], if you will, right??)... "himatia leukos-leukois [garments - white]"... now why is that?



Right. And 1Cor6:3[14] says "know ye not that WE SHALL JUDGE ANGELS" (addressed to "the Church which is His body, as is the following verse-->) Rom16:20 "And the God of peace shall bruise/crush Satan UNDER YOUR FEET *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*" (the same "TIME PERIOD" that 4:1-Rev19 speaks of, see... not to mention also Lk18:8a as well "avenge IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... not happening in the "NOW" but in the trib years [FOLLOWING "our Rapture"])

Contemporaneous and instantaneous. In the twinkling of an eye. Zero lag time. 10 to the -43 seconds aka a Planck unit of time.

When you wander off that far off from biblical prophecy and doctrine trust me you're an apostate.
I consider amillennialism (no future for ethnic Israel) apostasy and replacement theology too.

Luigi, I believe (DivineWaterMark) is a (Full Preterist) that denies a future bodily resurrection of the believer and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens?

Divinewatermark, correct me if I'm wrong, it's what I believe you have established in previous discussions?

Impossible. He believes in a pre-trib rapture. Yet future. As a precursory condition to the great tribulation.

No.

Sorry I overlooked this post of yours somehow.

I believe you have mixed me up completely with another poster (I do not know who you are thinking of)... but NONE of my recent posts in these two threads are anything close to "Preterism" (nor any of my posts EVER )... you must either be mis-reading [mis-skimming, more likely ] MY posts, or have been confusing me with a DIFFERENT poster.

To be clear, I am not "Preterist" = )