The End, the A.C., Revelation and the rest of it.

To understand.
I accept the whole word of God as full truth.
It's hard understanding the symbols in place for today. Dates and actions

Maybe I'm not asking clear enough,,,in your last paragraph your saying "those who will be worshiping the beast,his image and receiving his mark..." so your thinking that God is going to send his wrath(punishment) before they actually commit the sin of worshiping the image and receive the mark?

Yes, I just explained all of that in the previous post. God's coming wrath is not just in regards to the beast, his image and his mark, but will be the fulfillment of the Day of the Lord because of sin in general! The worshiping of the beast, his image and receiving his mark, does not begin until the middle of the seven years. That said, the seals and part of the trumpet judgments of wrath will have already been going on before the worshiping of the beast begins, when he proclaims himself to be God.

According to Daniel 9:27, the time period of God's wrath will be seven years in length. It will be the last seven years of the seventy seven year periods that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem.

That seven years begins with that ruler, the antichrist, establishing a seven year agreement with many (Israel being one of the many) where in the middle of the seven years he will cause that sacrifices and offerings that will have been going on, to cease. Where at which time he will set up that abomination that causes the desolation, which is when Israel flees out into the wilderness and is cared for by God during that last 3 1/2 years as described in Matt.24:15-22 & Rev.12:6, 14.

The first seal rider on the white horse, is representing the emergence of the antichrist.

The second seal rider on the red horse represents peace being taken from the earth so that men kill one another

The third seal rider on the black horse represents world-wide famine

The fourth seal rider on the pale green horse is death with Hades, who are given authority to kill a fourth of the earth.

All of the seals above and much of the trumpets are apart of God's wrath, which will take place prior to the beast, his image and his mark becoming mandatory.

As I have I said in all of the previous posts, God's wrath is not specifically being poured out because of the beast, his image and his mark, but because of mankind's sins in general. The worshiping of the beast, his image and his mark are just part of what will be going on during the time of God's wrath. God's reasons for is wrath are found in the scriptures that I provided from Zephaniah and Isaiah:

I will punish the world for its evil and the wicked for their iniquity.

I will end the haughtiness of the arrogant and lay low the pride of the ruthless.

and because of the following:

"Now the rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the works of their hands. They did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. Furthermore, they did not repent of their murder, sorcery, sexual immorality, and theft."

To reemphasize, the Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath, is not specifically regarding the worship of the beast, his image and the receiving of his mark. These are just events that will be taking place during the time of God's wrath, which will also invoke God's punishment. God's wrath will begin to be poured out before the beast, his image and his mark begin.

It doesn't seem to agree with with us being gathered unto him as in verse 1 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Thessalonians 2&version=KJV as in Paul's explanation that is he seems to think that that man of sin will come and then we will be gathered unto the Lord.

The reason that people believe that Paul is saying that the man of sin must come before the church is gathered, is because they misread the scripture, which I am going to explain as I have in previous posts. Below is the scripture in question:

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Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed.
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If you will notice in the scripture above, Paul begins with "the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him." Then in verse 2, he makes reference to the Day of the Lord, which though close in proximity, are two different events.

Our being gathered to the Lord, is when He appears and calls up His church, with the resurrection of the dead believers taking place first and then those believers who are still alive being changed and caught up with them. In Paul's letter to Titus, he calls our gathering the blessed hope of which Paul said to comfort one another with those words.

In opposition, "The Day of the Lord" is the time of God's wrath. People miss this change in the scripture from "the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him" vs. "The Day of the Lord," interpreting them as being the same event, which they are not. Because of their error of not recognizing Paul's change from 'the Lord's coming and our being gathered to Him' to 'the Day of the Lord' they interpret it as in the following paraphrase:

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him has already come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed.

Do you see the error? Paul referred to 'the Day of the Lord" and not 'the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him.'

The scripture is saying that "the Day of the Lord" will not come until the apostasy occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, not our being gathered.

* The coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him = the catching up of the church (rapture)

* The Day of the Lord = The time period of God's wrath

The coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him takes place first, with the Day of the Lord beginning thereafter.

I studied the heck out of this scripture, inside out and upside down, because I wanted to understand it, because I knew that since Jesus already suffered God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely, that believers could not and would not go through the time of His wrath. However, the answer becomes very clear once you recognize Paul's change from "the coming of the Lord and our being gathered to Him" vs. "The Day of the Lord," also referred to in verse 3 as 'that day.'

May the Lord open your eyes to this truth, as well as to everyone else who is reading this.

What I do think is that the MoS comes, sets up an image, demands worship, mark ect. then afterwards the wrath is poured upon them and we are resurrected/caught up after the SoP and prior to Gods wrath.

I think that to examine 2 Thess. 2 in great detail would be very helpful but in 2020 we don't posses the autograph(original) of Paul's letter https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/2.htm and so we would not be able narrow down the things you are stating as proofs. In the textual variants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_variants_in_the_Second_Epistle_to_the_Thessalonians of 2 Thess. 2 the word Lord/Christ ect. appear in some manuscripts but are different in others. So then we would be narrowed down to which interpretation we might see agrees with our idea of belief on the matter.

As I previously stated, the reason for God's coming wrath will not be specifically because of the beast, his image and his mark. But will be a time that has been prophesied about and will be poured out because of the rejecting of His Son and their continuing to willfully live according to the sinful nature.

It is your placement of God's wrath that is in error. The wrath of God, which begins at the opening of the first seal, takes place 3 1/2 years prior to the image being set up. And if you are able to except it, the image that the false prophet has the inhabitants of world make in honor of the first beast is that abomination spoken of in Daniel 9:27, which is that idolatrous image which will be set up in the holy place of which both Daniel and Jesus spoke of in Daniel 9:27 and Matt.24:15-22. Therefore, God's wrath will have already been in progress 3 1/2 years before the abomination/image has been set up and prior to the beast, his image and his mark.



We don't need the autograph of Paul's letter to understand this. As I have explained, it is his use of the terms "The coming of our Lord and our being gathered to him" vs. "The Day of the Lord." Once you recognize the change it makes sense. I challenge you to do a study on "The Day of the Lord" and you will find that the content always has to do with God's wrath and is never a blessing (Amos 5:18). Regarding this, believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath because Jesus already did, satisfying it completely. Therefore, from a legal standpoint, since God's wrath has been satisfied on behalf of all believers, then we cannot be on the earth during that time, because His wrath will come upon the whole earth and everyone will be exposed to it. This is also supported by the fact that the word "church" is never used again through chapters 6 thru 18. To be clear about this, below is the chronological order of events:

* The coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him

* The Day of the Lord: the period of God's wrath beginning with the first seal being opened which is the emergence of the antichrist
and followed by the rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment throughout the entire period of wrath leading up to the Lord's
return to end the age.

* The abomination/image which is set up in the middle of that period of God's wrath, as well as the mark of the beast as the only way
of electronic buying and selling

* The pouring out of the seventh bowl

* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age with the church following Him out of heaven riding on white horses and his angels
also

* The beast and false prophet captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire

* All who will have worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark are killed by the double-edged sword which proceeds from
the Lord's mouth

* Satan is seized and thrown into and sealed in the Abyss for a thousand years

* Millennial Kingdom

=====================================================================.

The coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him followed by:

|------------------------------------------ T H E W R A T H OF G O D -----------------------------------------------------|
|------------------------------------- S E A L S - T R U M P E T S - B O W L S ---------------------------------------------|

The time of God's wrath (The Day of the Lord) will be recognizable by the apostacy having occurred and the man of lawlessness being revealed.

I studied the heck out of this scripture, inside out and upside down, because I wanted to understand it, ...

It is your placement of God's wrath that is in error.

Matthew 24:29-31

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Hi Ahwatukee,
I see above you believe his wrath starts at the beginning of 7 yrs and it's ALL God's wrath and the AC at the 3.5 yrs,correct?
So are you mid or post rapture. I believe the Lord drank the cup of God's wrath against believers.
So I guess I'm not sure where AC comes in and wars against believers.

I read a book a long time ago written by Ernest Angsley.( Now deceased) RAPTURE,RAPTURE
I was born again and filled with the Holy Ghost( as in acts) at the time but it was scary then.
It was geared as pre tribe and the AC started at beginning,lukewarm were left behind.

I guess btwn secular books and movies about the end times I'm not sure where to stand.

It doesn't seem to agree with with us being gathered unto him as in verse 1 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Thessalonians 2&version=KJV as in Paul's explanation that is he seems to think that that man of sin will come and then we will be gathered unto the Lord.

Brother, you need to study it some more...

2 Thessalonians 2:

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

If verse 1 is the "topic of concern", why would Paul then continue to speak about something else?

Think about it...

The phrase 'the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ', the phrase 'the day of Christ', and the phrase 'that day' [shall not come] are all talking about the same thing - the Second Coming of Christ.

Paul is talking about the same singular topic in all three of the above verses. He does not "change" to something else the moment he indicates what he is going to be talking about.

Good day, Just_Jo!

First of all, I believe that the 2,300 evenings and mornings prophecy is referring to the event with Antiochus Epiphanes, (a type of antichrist. A foreshadow, if you will) when he desecrated the temple and persecuted the Jews from 171 - 165 BC. When Antiochus died, the Jews purified and rededicated the temple, just as Daniel had predicted. This is in fact is what Hanukkah is celebrating. Needless to say, this prophecy was fulfilled prior to the Lord's appearing on the earth. The prophecy that pertains to the coming antichrist, is regarding that last seven years of the decree of seventy seven year periods revealed in Daniel which is the tribulation period and specifically the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period also known as the great tribulation, which is referred to in Daniel and Revelation a time, times and half a time, 1260 days and 42 months.

This last seven years is divided up into two 3 1/2 year periods, with the setting up of the abomination marking the middle of the seven years, as revealed in Daniel 9:27. As I'm sure that you know, Israel does not currently have a temple. When that ruler, the antichrist makes his seven year covenant with Israel, they will be able rebuild their temple and begin sacrifice's and offerings once again. In fact, they have everything regarding the temple, its blueprints, the temple furniture, the priests robes, etc., etc., the teachings of the priestly responsibilities, ready to go. Therefore, when that seven year covenant is made, the fulfillment of that last seven years will begin with Israel and her temple, God picking up right where He left off in fulfillment of that last seven years of the decree of seventy sevens. This all takes place during the time of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

In any case, the 2,300 evenings and mornings prophecy has been fulfilled and has nothing to do with the unfulfilled prophecy of the coming antichrist/beast in Revelation, only that it was a foreshadow of what is coming.

Church Gathered- | -------------------------------------- S E V E N Y E A R S -----------------------------------------------| -- Jesus Returns to earth
-----------------------| --------------------------- S E A L S / T R U M P E T S / B O W L S -----------------------------------| -- Beast cast into LOF
-----------------------| ---------------------------------------- G O D' S W R A T H ---------------------------------------------| -- Satan sealed in Abyss
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->| -- GTS Resurrected
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->| -- Millennial Kingdom

It is usually typical that those who know nothing about end-time events to disagree by giving a thumbs down, without any scripture to back it up. They're just protecting the false teachings that they have adopted. What I have listed above is the truth according to all releated scriptures.

Some say chapter 20 of Revelation is a parable The whole book of Revaltion is a parable. The first verses identifies it as not only inspired but the signified language of God, the poetic tongue. Called the "hidden mana" in chapter 2. The bread of unfamiliarity.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The signified tongue of God should be looked at through the prescription freely given to us for rightly dividing parables. .
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Satan would turn those things upside down taking away the unseen understanding of the Potter .It would seem Christians understand by mixing faith with the things seen . . they are not the things seen but representatives or shadows.

The 144,000 as a unknow represents the whole bride of Christ made up of many (144,000) lively stones that make up the spiritual houses of God, the church. We look to the unseen things of God those he reveals in His signified tongue the gospel .

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

We walk by faith not by wondering .

2 Corinthians 5:7(For we walk by faith, not by sight )

To understand.
I accept the whole word of God as full truth.
It's hard understanding the symbols in place for today. Dates and actions

I am not agree

What happen in 7 years tribulation

No body able to buy or sale without mark of the beast.

Who make that rule? God?

Devil angry/wrath than issue that rule, not god.

It doesn't seem to agree with with us being gathered unto him as in verse 1 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Thessalonians 2&version=KJV as in Paul's explanation that is he seems to think that that man of sin will come and then we will be gathered unto the Lord.