Eschatology differences & how people get treated

Wrath study what the wrath of GOD is,

Who is to say that when Gods wrath is poured out it would land on believers if they where still here?
Arent the 144k on the earth during the time of Gods wrath?
What if we are still here and walking in the fullness of Christ, being provided for by God and being subject to martyrdom while the wrath falls on everyone else.
IDK
Pan trib myself - For those who truly believe in Jesus it will all pan out in the end.

I would see the rapture take place before any wrath takes place . We see this pattern in the OT . The Gospel is good news .

Actually, Amillennialism is on the rise In North American. Why?

1. It is the only end times scenarios that makes sense and fits with scripture.

2. Post-millennial is for positive people, and too many things have gone wrong since the turn of the 20th century. Dispensationalism is just a nightmare of mistakes, disagreements about signs that weren't even written to us, and all the false prophecies that have gone on results in people look for a better interpretation of end times. The best way to interpret is to use partial preterism. Many things were fulfilled at the time of Jesus. But certainly not the visible return of Jesus.

3. We are NOT to be setting or knowing the hour or day of Jesus' return. Dispies whole interpretations consist of figuring out when Jesus is returning, against Jesus own words!

"36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Matt 24:36.

Amillennialists do not set dates. Of course there are so many more reasons why it is right, but it's hardly worth discussing when 10 people will jump on you telling you your guess is wrong, and their guess is right. We need to be humble and admit we may be wrong. Like our OP, Soul Weaver, stated!

As for telling people they are not saved because of their eschatological beliefs, that is just funny. Like it has anything to do with the gospel! Here is a full description of the gospel. Paul continues after this to talk about the return of Christ. But no times/dates, no rapture mentioned or any of the Dispies hold dear!

"Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born." 1 Cor 15:1-8

The same reason that apostasy is on the rise in North America.

Which is failure to believe the Bible in its plain literal sense. Amillennialism is pure fantasy, since it rejects what is plainly revealed in Revelation 20. Which is no ordinary revelation. It is THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST.

Well yeah, who wants to suffer or Jesus if you do not have to.
i would like the easy way out too.
Even Jesus wanted to avoid the cross if it was possible.
But I will rely on God either way.

You mean Sodom and Egypt... Yeah could be.
But the 144K are here during the time of Gods wrath are they not?

The good news of the Gospel is not that you will not suffer in this life
The good news is that you can be forgiven and become what Christ and God are and be saved in the process.

Who names this stuff?
Like some joke, lets see them pronounce this one.

The Tribulation is about Israel. The 144k are Jewish . Its all about Israel and there return .

As a believer we will suffer in this life . We are to count it as ' momemtary light affliction, ' and sufferings not to be counted as compared with the Joy to come. This world is not our Home .
The whole earth is groaning and travails. The effects of the fall means that if I wander off in the jungle I can be eaten by lions or Bitten by snakes . Stand too close to a volcano and im toast . But as someone in Christ there is no 'bad news 'any more . No condemnation, No fear of death or Hell anymore. No fear of God's wrath . Its completely good news .

You guys still falling to see the wrath off GOD , for one minute put away rapture ideology and re-study and I'm pretty sure you will find it if not , after a few I will reveal it to you all ..

I understand where you are coming from , and it is truly sad...
I feel sorry for the babes in Christ who are looking to grow in the word , yet when they post , they are trampled on by many , by those who believe " they are right "...

It would be lovely to see many more come side by side to teach and correct , and some do on here , there are many loving sisters and brothers , but also many full of pride...
...xox...

And this is true only believers that we are spared from God's wrath

Mob Rule And Group Think?

Stand Out And Be Counted

Every word spoken against the son of man will be forgiven. One goes to show how difficult our task is. in bed

I have indeed read the bible. I was trying to say people suffer unnecessarily, which is a term used in bible. There are examples of people in the bible suffering and attributing that suffering to God, which is wrong to me. Job for instance, daniel for another. Christ warns about suffering for doing the right thing, and he was not pleased about it. In a broader context, i am asking if we are here b/c it is the will of God, and God made all things, then who would profit from trying to stop us? The sheer amount of time and topic covered in the bible can lead to endless arguements and study of context and i don't want to get tangled up in such things, I wonder if i can find help understanding the state of our society and i reference the bible b/c i know lots of people have read it.

IKR! If i spoke what is wrong, correct me, but if spoke what is right, why would you shun me?

You'll notice in my post I separated the two thoughts by a wide margin. I addressed the heresy accusation as occurred against Protestants centuries ago. Then I addressed the matter of the thread topic itself well after.
Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I should have made a note of what I had intended by those paragraph margins.

Hello Lion222,

This is why the book of Revelation was given to us, so that we could know what God's wrath will be and when it would take place. The first verse of Revelation says: "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants what things it behooves to take place in quickness."

"What things" that must take place in quickness, are the events of wrath which take up the majority of the Revelation described from chapter 6 thru 18, said wrath being carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments." The things that must take place in quickness," as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring and all related information make up the wrath of God. This is why God gave us this book so that we could know what is going to take place. We also know when said wrath will take place, which will be after the gathering of the church, because believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath.

Regarding God's wrath landing on believers, this is why Jesus warned every believer to be watching and ready for His imminent return. Paul called it the 'blessed hope' (Titus 2:13) and said that we should "comfort each other with these words" (I Thess.4:18). Consequently, for those who preach that the church will be here during the time of God's wrath, in that case there would be nothing to comfort each other about. Likewise, if the Lord was to put us through His wrath and then gather us afterwards, then our gathering would be no blessed hope, for we would be punished right along with the wicked.

As I have said in many posts, regarding the timing of God's wrath in relation to the gathering of the church, many do not understand the underlying principle in that, Christ already took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Therefore, God's wrath no longer rests upon those who believe in Christ and we cannot be here to experience it. There will however be another group who will be on the earth during the time of God's wrath who will become believers after the church has been removed. These are those introduced in Revelation 7:9-17 as that great number of white robed saints which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language, which would make them Gentiles. They will be here, because they will have become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath. This group will be exposed to God's wrath simply because they will be caught in that time period which will affect the entire world. Because of their testimony for Jesus and the word of God and because they will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark, they will be enemies of the beast and the world. You think that the riots currently taking place now are bad? These great tribulation saints will be hunted down by authorities and by the population.

The woman, her pregnancy, her child and the seven headed dragon, are all symbolic representing the literal. Genesis 37:9-10 provides the identity of the woman who is clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars as being the unbelieving nation of Israel. I say this because Jacob replying to Joseph's dream reveals the identity of the sun representing Jacob, the moon representing his wife or wives and the eleven stars representing eleven of the twelve tribes of Israel, with Joseph being the twelfth star. God uses those same symbols in Revelation to identify the woman who is clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars.

Since the woman is not a literal woman, then neither is her pregnancy nor will she literally be giving birth to a literal male child.

In Revelation 14:4 John writes regarding the 144,000:

"These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins."

By saying that these 144,000 have not defiled themselves with women, it identifies them as being all males, ergo, the Male Child of chapter 12. The Male Child is a collective name representing the 144,000, twelve thousand from each tribe. As scripture states, these will be 144,000 who will acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah. Therefore, these 144,000 believing Israelites coming out of the unbelieving nation of Israel, is the figurative meaning of the woman giving birth to the male child, i.e. unbelieving Israel giving birth to believing Israel.

Since the male child is figuratively representing the 144,000, then in the middle of the seven years, around the same time that Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth, the male child (144,000} will be caught up to God and His throne, prior to the great tribulation beginning, which is that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period.

I would also point out that the same word "harpazo" translated as 'snatched up' used to describe the gathering of the living church, is the same word used to describe the male child being caught up to God. Though not mentioned, I would venture that at the time they are caught up, they will also be changed immortal and glorified, just as the living church is at the time of Christ's appearing.

Anyone who has done a true study on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments knows that anyone who is present on the earth during that time will be exposed to those plagues of wrath, which is why Jesus and the apostles continually warn us to be watching and ready so that day will not close on us like a trap. Because of that underlying principle that I mentioned earlier in this post of Jesus already taking upon himself God's wrath on our behalf, the church cannot be subject to God's wrath that has already been satisfied by the Lord.

In answer to your question and for example, when that 4th angel pours out his bowl on the sun which gives it power to scorch men with fire and sear them with intense heat, where on the earth could the church go to escape that? Likewise, when those demonic beings come up out of the Abyss to torment the inhabitants with tails and stings like scorpions, the only one's who are mentioned as being protected from that torment will be those who will have been sealed with the seal of God on their foreheads, which are only the 144,000. This sealing is not to be confused with our being sealed by the Holy Spirit, but will be a literal, visible sealing marking those 144,000 of whom those demonic being will not be able to touch. Other than this group, no one else is said to be excluded from this torment. That would mean that if the church was here they would also be subject to this plague of wrath. Those who are currently in Christ and are watching for His appearing, are not destined for the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which along with the plagues the two witnesses will bring, make up the wrath of God.

Hi Angela,

Amillennialism does not make sense, nor is it supported by scripture. Amillennialism says that the thousand years is not a literal thousand years, but an unknown amount of time, even though scripture states the words "a thousand years" six times. An because they believe that it is an unknown amount of time, they say that it began with Christ and we are still living in that thousand years. So the first error sets the stage for a false understanding of the millennial kingdom. Isaiah describes some of the characteristics of that time period where the lion will eat straw like the ox, that if a man dies a 100 years old he will be thought to be accursed and to be a mere child. It also states that prey and predator animals and their young will lie down together. If we are currently living in the millennial kingdom, where have we ever seen those characteristics existing? The answer would be never. We have not yet seen these qualities on the earth. This all stems from not properly discerning what is symbolic and what is literal in scripture.

Regarding the millennial kingdom, scripture identifies it as a literal thousand years and which takes place after the seven year tribulation and after the Lord has returned to the earth to end the age. The Amillennialist figuratively interprets Titus and his legions destroying the temple as fulfillment of the destruction of the temple with Christ's return in 70 There are so many problems with this it is hard to pick a place to begin. But I'll use this one: Jesus said that when they say to you the Messiah is out in the desert don't go out to look. Or that the Messiah is in a secret room. Don't believe it. Then He said, that He would arrive on the clouds of heaven and that every eye would see him (Matt.24:30, Rev.1:7) and that all of the inhabitants of the earth would mourn because of His arrival. Therefore, by the Amillennialist interpreting Jesus return as being fulfilled by Titus and the Roman legions, they are guilty of no recognizing the literal, visual return of Christ.

In addition to a literal thousand years taking place after the tribulation period, Daniel 2 describes the statute of Nebuchadnezzar's dream as representing all human government, with the feet with ten toes of partly baked clay and iron being the last kingdom on the earth. The Rock (Jesus) falls on the feet of the statue smashing it to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor, with the wind blowing it away without leaving a trace, i.e. the end of human government. Then the Rock becomes a huge mountain and fills the entire earth, which is referring to Christ's reign during the millennial kingdom.

That are so many events that the Amillennialist must circumvent and distort in order to hold to their interpretation.

Escaping the suffering of God's wrath is not and easy way out, but a legal precedent with God. Since God's wrath has already been satisfied by Christ, why would the faithful still be appointed to suffer it? That would be like saying even though Christ paid the penalty for our sins by the shedding of His blood, that in addition, God still requires from believers the shedding of their blood for forgiveness.

It is not a matter of wanting the easy way out, but that the requirement of God's wrath because of sin has been satisfied for those in Christ. And because of this, believers cannot legally be here to be exposed to it. Our being removed from the earth is a promise from the Lord, which we should be anticipating and looking forward to.