So what does that make me?

Love me some David Crowder Collision.

So what does that make me?
That's what is really behind the whole "Trinities struggle"?

Creation informs us about the nature of God, its why he made everything just so.
Just so that it could give us context to understand the our creator.
Everything produces after its kind....

Dog kind, Man Kind, Angel kind, God kind.
Jesus existed in God from the eternity past.
All of us existed in Adam from the beginning.
Levi paid tithes while still inside Abraham his ancestor to the King of Righteousness. Levi was attributed the deeds of Abraham before he ever came out of him. - Hebrews

Jesus existed in the form of God but humbled himself to become something new.
The first born of the God men. Those who are men in the flesh united to God who is Spirit.
All of what man is, all of what God is. the First born and Lord over the house or family of God.
Father son family spirit conception all the things we naturally know from what has been made. All right here plain and simple.
The things God chose to show to us how things are with God. God is a family.

So what does that make me?


Enter the Trinity.

A man made creed adding to if not standing in place of, and perhaps even held above the clear and obvious word of God?

A man made religious doctrine pressed into law by a murderous roman emperor.

A creed that resulted in the murdering of thousands of Christians by so called Christians.


Did you know there are two official version of the trinity? One Catholic one Orthodox, my guess it was just because the Orthodox church as just to big and powerful to just murder them all as heretics. Not so for the many smaller churches as well as the Jewish Christians. Yeah they said not to be violent but that is not the result. The sabbath day was changed separating the fellowship of Jewish and no Jewish believers. fellowship was forbidden, intermarriage was punishable by death. So very Christian of them. So why is it still venerated today?


The real issue behind the trinity is how do you control a Church that is asking “What does that make me?”

Cant really control a bunch of people going around thinking they are united in Spirit with God. (sarcasm alert) NO NO NO you can only have three! You and I don't count, no matter what that old bible says. You cant think you are actually the same thing as Jesus… Na you cant really count as brothers and sisters, sons and daughter. No not really, perhaps we will let you think so, but only to a point.

So you have the Trinity to make sure you don't get any ideas about your birthright in Christ or dare stand with Christ and the word of God against the Official Church of the State of the Holy Roman Empire.

It is a disservice to leave behind the very word of God to instead embrace the doctrines of men. Especially when it separates them from realizing the fullness of their salvation, their birthright as God’s children.

Yeah every idiot knows a family has authority structure. Not every child will be equal, it depends on their maturity and position. For sure no one out rules the head of the family. But all true children are heirs and equal in the fact of being family.

Yes Yes Yes Jesus is not the father, Jesus is the son. Everyone knows a son is not the father. Jesus has a God and father, same one we have. Jesus is all that man is just like you and me. Jesus is also all What God is in spirit/kind/nature if not so in form anymore. The two natures together are a new kind the same exact kind as all of us. According to 1 Peter a new Race (genos) a new nation (Ethnos). Jesus came from God with the spirit side and got his flesh side from his mom. We came with our flesh side and got our spirit side from our Father God. We are nothing less then family. Call it a trinity family if you cant let go, or just call it family, the family of God.
Born of God and man, not lacking in either in any way. How else could it be remotely possible for us to be filled up to the fullness of the stature of Christ Jesus and even to all the fullness of God. "God says you will be Holy because I am Holy" But who really believes? Such a Salvation is just too impossible to even think of, that God would do that! No wonder Satan did not have a clue.

What does your trinity give me that the word of God does not?
I can tell you what it takes away, the understanding of what being a part of this family of God makes me.


Insert (Grumble grumble here) and follow with (How dare you) and wrap it of with at good (Who do you think you are)

Child of the Most High God, that's what I believe. The awesome salvation of my God through Jesus Christ.


Who do you think you are?



Yes I dare to touch the sacred cow.
For the sake of my brother and sisters who want to know what that makes them.
Does that mean you don’t want me around anymore?

I believe that the word of God affirms the trinity and the trinity exists throughout the word of God.

Gods word clearly teaches the way it does for good reason, it needs nothing else.
Gods word teaches family as how to understand God.

Trinity, is undeniably a doctrine of men.
It can not being taught as equal to if not a better understanding then what the word of God plainly says.
is not better, it is worse, a dangerous practice.
No matter how good intentioned mans creeds may be they are less then the word of God, they subtract or they add.

These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. They worship Me in vain;
WHY?
they teach as doctrine the precepts of men - Matthew 15:19

Precept -
A commandment or direction given as a rule of action; teaching; instruction;
A direction or order issued by an authority; a writ, command, or process

If you ask me is the trinity doctrine issued at the First Council of Nicaea wrong, I would ask you two questions.

Which one, two official versions of the trinity doctrine resulted from Nicaea?

How was the word of God insufficient in its authority and communication of these things?

Well you do make some interesting points. The trinity being the father the son and spirit but then I never asked what does that make me?
Although I do have some counter points, we are heirs in his kingdom adopted children as if we came from his seed to begin with even though we were born of flesh but we also are just that heirs we are his children but we are not a part of God in the way Jesus is.

The argument for the trinity and one major fact is that he is God three in one yet each with unique traits we are born into his kingdom through Christ but we are still human.

Yes Jesus came in human form but he was also God we were never born as God and even in his family we are not equal as God.

Yes we as heirs receive all that was given to Christ but that is the inheritance not.
Think of it this way, you know the four elements right? Water earth fire and wind? Lets say we compare Father to fire, it can rage destroy and consume it is a fierce and wild thing just as he is in his wrath and judgement, but fire also brings life it makes a field grow back greener and healthier than before it also furnishes and and is used to melt the metals of the earth to make steel. Say we liken Jesus to water as he was serene calm and gentle like the oceans gentle waves or a still pond of water where life flourishes, he is the living water we soak on his words we are washed clean by him.

Say we also liken the Holy spirit to wind it stirs and moves freely it fans the flames and moves the waters stirring inside the believer it flows of it's own accord freely and without our control for who can control the wind?

Say we also liken us as earth we have the minerals in us to be furnished into steel we require his waters or we will dry up and crack the seeds are planted in good soil to sprout life but here is the thing though the earth unlike water wind and fire is always still and unmovable unless the earth is shaken it unlike fire cannot spread with all it touches, it unlike water cannot flow it unlike wind is not free to stir and it can do nothing without the other elements.


The fire burn s and consumes but in doing so the earth is reborn more beautiful and filled with life the water protects the earth from an all consuming fire by in it's nature defusing the raging flames and it also gives the earth the quenching of it's thirst the wind fans the flames that bring life that in turn make the earth flourish but all of this is not of the earths accord nor is the earth a part of the other three elements.

The four elements coincide perfectly together mainly because of the other three elements so we as his children in the same way flourish because of the father the son and the spirit we coincide perfectly and are brought into his kingdom we inherit and produce but not of our own accord, this is why The trinity is in place because I think God knew what he was doing when he made things as they are

Jesus was a man with the Spirit of God inside?
You are a man with the Spirit of God inside?

Jesus was physically born but in spirit existed before then.
You where spiritually born but existed in a physical body before then.

We are adopted into the promises , grafted into the promise of Christ given to Abraham.
Conceived by the holy spirit to be born again as a new thing.

The same new thing that Jesus is.
The same thing that Jesus still is, just ask Thomas.
He is not ashamed to call us brothers an sisters because our Father is His Father.
Our new nature is from our God side of the family.
like looking at a new born and saying she has her mothers eyes.
Yes, and her Fathers Spirit of justice.

We represent the union of the house of God, the family of God and the house of Adam, the family of Adam.
Like a bride becoming part of another family, physical joined to spiritual.

So if the definition of God is in family as the scriptures perfectly place it, what does that make me?

Yes, still none is greater then the Father in the family.
Yes, the first born has the greatest authority over the house.
Yes, the masters infant children are hard to distinguish from the children of the servants of the house.
At least until they receive there placements as sons in positions of authority in Gods house.
Some translate that act of placement in position as adoption but who adopts the child they themselves have conceived?

The kingdom of God, the house of God, the family of God.
This is what the word of God gives us so we might understand the relationship.

If a man accept Jesus than die in the next second he is save,because salvation by faith not by work. But real faith will bear good fruit if that man life another months or years. Not because his work saved him, but his faith bear good fruits like love other, help other etc

Romans 10:10
For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.
Confession is a work of faith.
Faith is what you believe in your heart.

It is your confession that saves you.

Well the difference is Jesus was already God he was not merely a man born of the spirit he was God in the flesh, we are not such

Are you born of God or not?
If you are of God what does that make you?
The spirit of Jesus came fourth from God.
The spirit that you revived, that brought about your new life, also came fourth from God, did it not?
So what does that make you?

It is why the salvation of God is so mind blowing.
How else are things born of clay to stand in the full stature of Christ Jesus and be fulled up to the fullness of God?
It would be a totally absurd impossible statement if not for what Salvation has done to us who believe it.

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

Well the point I was making is the entire idea about the trinity, in becoming his children as if we were born of his seed we become a part of the trinity and I say part because while we are then a part of him we also are not him.

The idea of the trinity is about union, Jesus claimed to be God and this was indeed a blasphemous claim if he was lying but he wasn't he could not have done all he did if he was not God but while we are now able to do the things he did that doesn't make us God I mean would you claim the same thing?

He was the son of God he knew and had the holy spirit he and the father were one but only he could claim to be equal to God because only he was born without sin in the flesh. Jesus came to set the stage, he wanted to bring us into his threshold to become one in heart with God. This doesn't make the trinity false and it also doesn't make us the trinity if anything it proves the trinity and proves how we have become a part of it in mind body and spirit but we also cannot claim to be the same as Christ. We cannot claim to be God we are not worthy to undo the seals we are not the ones who sit on the throne

Ok ...
Was Jesus equals to His Father?

Did Jesus have a God?

No he wasn't equal to father but if he also was not in the trinity and was not God then then were the pharisees right in saying how blasphemous he was in claiming to be God?

Forget the trinity doctrine for a moment.
The religious types said he makes himself out to be equal with God. - not true.
What He did was do the works of God and speak the words of God with the authority of God and demonstrate the exact nature of God by the Spirit within him that was God.

A good question to ask is How was Jesus God?

if a man does those things, are you dealing with just a man or are you dealing God in Spirit?

If a man comes today doing those same things are you dealing with just a man?

When Ananias and his wife lied to the apostle where they lying to just with the apostle?

The more we know God the more we recognize that it is Him coming to us in other people.

There is a story in the OT of God putting his spirit in a Angel and sending that angel and warning the people he is sending the angel and to be careful to obey everything his angel says. You see the Angel doing only what God can rightly do in this story.
Was the angel God?

God is Spirit.
Angels, people, even Jesus are vessels.
Yes the vessel has a spirit or nature of its own.
Some jars are plastic others glass others stainless steel
So if you grab a jar and open it and peanut butter is inside, is it peanut butter or is it a jar?
just like a jar is a peanut butter jar when it is full of PB,
A man is a God man when he is full of God.
Jesus was a man filled to the fullness of the Spirit of God.
This is how Jesus was fully God and how he was fully man.
just like peanut butter in the jar.

So whats in your jar and what does that make you?

Wow I never thought of it like that

it is by your confession that you place yourself under his Lordship.
His lordship over you is what saves you.

Just one more condemnation of the Holy Trinity Thread............sigh...........

There is coming a day when you and all who believe as you will face Judgement...........I feel sorry for you and them because of your blind ignorance............

The Gospel of John (in it's entirity) introduces, defines and justifies the Holy Trinity. That you are without understanding is not our fault................

I may disagree with him but I have to admit his last response to me really made me think.

The Scripture supports the existence of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, all three are not the same. Father and Son and us share in one Spirit, one being or essence, and essence of God is LOVE. I don't think it's fruitful for us to focus on Roman emperors of the past. The early church did as precisely as they could, to derive tenets of our faith from the Bible, even though God is infinitely vast and to an extent beyond our understanding. I am not dogmatically oriented myself or beat others on the head, but it happens, and will happen again because humans humaning. What really matters is what we can do today, and that are we girded in Jesus, today.

The deceiver has a way of doing that.............why his terrible, tangled web is so very dangerous for believers who give credence to it........

No trust me he means well he and I have been pm a lot so I have come to know him pretty well currently he is working on creating a text based Christian game I got a tatse of the first part it was actually really amazing you will need to really put on your thinking like Christ cap I think I just got lucky.