So what does that make me?
- Thread starter Lion222
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Peanuts!
I have no problem with the Greek orthodox version of the trinity doctrine other then its being extra-biblical and when people hold it above or as being equal to the word of God itself.
I think is obscures the role of the brothers and sisters of Christ in the family of God.
I think that the bible is good enough on its own!
I have no problem with the Greek orthodox version of the trinity doctrine other then its being extra-biblical and when people hold it above or as being equal to the word of God itself.
I think is obscures the role of the brothers and sisters of Christ in the family of God.
I think that the bible is good enough on its own!
P
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit we are not. We are made from sin.
Jesus was and is Devine we are not.
I'm taking your trash to the curb saint or ain't which ever you are.
The Trinity is spoken of in Genesis in the very creation. Let us make man in our image.
Elohim is plural not singular.
I think it's time to correct yourself as I pray you will .
Attacking the deity of the Christ is not taken lightly.
God is not a man.
Like us the Son of man dwelt in a body of death. He had no power of his own. He declared his flesh profits for nothing zero. As a prophet and apostle (sent one) he did the will of the father not the will of his own flesh.
Like brother Lion mentioned .The son of man's flesh was no different than us as prophets and apostles sent with the good news of the father .
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
The Son of man again has no power of his own . In that way there is no such thing a holiness of the corrupted flesh. But there is holiness of the unseen Spirit . The power to forgive and rebuke
A distinction between the things of men the temporal seen as that of God the eternal not seen must be rightfully divided. Its there that the father of lies can get his foot in the door coming along side the believer Like in Job. the spirit of lies Satan came with the sons of God to accuse them before God day and night.
Note... bolded black ........ no power to forgive or rebuke powerless
Bolded red . . . all the power does work to forgive and rebuke.
Bolded green.. . .the spirit essence of all life.
Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
No such thing as holiness of the flesh. It returns to the dust the clay of the Potters field, the field of blood.
We walk by faith . . the will of the unseen father who works in us. .
Making Jesus as the Son of man into a daysman a infallible interpreter is to commit blasphemy
Amen
What I have trouble with is if its one Spirit .We cannot divide that at make it two. Each having 1/2 .Its one work of one faith or labor of love. The work of one Spirit working together in perfect harmony as if it was two. Two seems to work better. He uses two to represent his invisible image .
He made him mankind one creation woman was not formed her from a rib as a separate creation. .But flesh and bone the whole creation . Many make it a after thought and use the bone of Adam as the origin of female.
The rest of the creatures not created in the image he made male separately and female separately . In the new order it would seem the two literally will become one as the bride of Christ..
Genesis 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man (mankind) in our image, after our likeness: and let them (mankind) have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man (mankind) in his own image, in the image of God created he him(mankind) ; male and female created he them ( separately, the kind not subject to salvation).
What I have trouble with is if its one Spirit .We cannot divide that at make it two. Each having 1/2 .Its one work of one faith or labor of love. The work of one Spirit working together in perfect harmony as if it was two. Two seems to work better. He uses two to represent his invisible image .
He made him mankind one creation woman was not formed her from a rib as a separate creation. .But flesh and bone the whole creation . Many make it a after thought and use the bone of Adam as the origin of female.
The rest of the creatures not created in the image he made male separately and female separately . In the new order it would seem the two literally will become one as the bride of Christ..
Genesis 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man (mankind) in our image, after our likeness: and let them (mankind) have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man (mankind) in his own image, in the image of God created he him(mankind) ; male and female created he them ( separately, the kind not subject to salvation).
Wrong! You're lumping in "Jesus" who happens to be God in the flesh as if He is creation......that's absolutely wrong.
No other human was "BORN OF GOD" from a VIRGIN. No other human was THE WORD of GOD that WAS and IS GOD and by HIM ALL THINGS WERE MADE - seen and unseen.
JESUS CHRIST IS GOD in the flesh. God does have 3 parts just like us - spirit, soul and body yet, ONE person.
No other human was "BORN OF GOD" from a VIRGIN. No other human was THE WORD of GOD that WAS and IS GOD and by HIM ALL THINGS WERE MADE - seen and unseen.
JESUS CHRIST IS GOD in the flesh. God does have 3 parts just like us - spirit, soul and body yet, ONE person.
ONLY trust the Holy Spirit to know Truth. Human reasoning leads astray....it's twisted truth with lies that always elevates man with pride.
It's in HUMILITY that we become more like God, NOT in pride.
In humility we acknowledge our TOTAL dependency on God ALONE, we are NOTHING without Him. Then, God lifts us up to where He is - we are NOT to lift up ourselves.
God makes us equal with Him, we do NOT make ourselves equal with God.
God had to save us because we could NOT save ourselves. ONLY God is God, we are only what He says we are.
It's in HUMILITY that we become more like God, NOT in pride.
In humility we acknowledge our TOTAL dependency on God ALONE, we are NOTHING without Him. Then, God lifts us up to where He is - we are NOT to lift up ourselves.
God makes us equal with Him, we do NOT make ourselves equal with God.
God had to save us because we could NOT save ourselves. ONLY God is God, we are only what He says we are.
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who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, (unlike Satan)
But Jesus himself states the Father is greater then I am. see John 14:28 for yourself
Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person
is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God. - John 3:3
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, - 1 John 5:1
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the power and right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. - John 1:14
Your born again spirit is Divine.
If it is not so then God is not your Spiritual Father.
The Holy spirit within you, united to your Spirit causing you to be born again, is that very same seed that same Holy Spirit by which Jesus was conceived and born?
Does God have children born of blood? NO!
Jesus had blood but that part of his nature was from his mothers side.
His Spiritual nature was from his Fathers.
The man of the flesh has no part in the family of God.
so that He (Jesus) would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters - Romans 8:29
If you are not what Jesus is, not born from above, Fathered by God in your spirit man then you are not part of the Family of God.
But Jesus himself states the Father is greater then I am. see John 14:28 for yourself
Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person
is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God. - John 3:3
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, - 1 John 5:1
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the power and right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. - John 1:14
Your born again spirit is Divine.
If it is not so then God is not your Spiritual Father.
The Holy spirit within you, united to your Spirit causing you to be born again, is that very same seed that same Holy Spirit by which Jesus was conceived and born?
Does God have children born of blood? NO!
Jesus had blood but that part of his nature was from his mothers side.
His Spiritual nature was from his Fathers.
The man of the flesh has no part in the family of God.
so that He (Jesus) would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters - Romans 8:29
If you are not what Jesus is, not born from above, Fathered by God in your spirit man then you are not part of the Family of God.
@garee
I believe Spirit, the definition of "spirit" to be in the sense like when people say that something was "in such and such spirit" where "spirit" means the "essence of presence/being", like when people say someone is "in low spirits", many people can be in low spirits at the same time fully and not differ at all, and also low spiritedness in itself is an existing negative spirit (of course God has completely opposite kind of spirit I'm just using the phrases as an example for the understanding of "spirit").
I think where the confusion lies is that "ghost" is used synonymously, and it has a bit loaded meaning, so it draws us to imagine personal souls of men instead. The fact that soul and spirit are also used interchangeably in the Bible influences this thinking as well. However, soul is defined in the beginning of the Bible, when God made Adam's physical body and moved him, made him live with His living Presence or Spirit (Greek, pneuma, from where we have "pneumatics" - pneumatics basically means something intangible, airy having mechanical properties: moving solid things). "And Adam became a living soul". So soul is the sentient component of man and arises in the combination of body and quickening Spirit. To back this up, when I pulled all the references for "soul" and "spirit" in the Bible, it's only souls that get redeemed, and only souls sin. Spirit is God's living observing Presence within us ("the eyes of the Lord are in every place, seeing evil and good").
I believe Spirit, the definition of "spirit" to be in the sense like when people say that something was "in such and such spirit" where "spirit" means the "essence of presence/being", like when people say someone is "in low spirits", many people can be in low spirits at the same time fully and not differ at all, and also low spiritedness in itself is an existing negative spirit (of course God has completely opposite kind of spirit I'm just using the phrases as an example for the understanding of "spirit").
I think where the confusion lies is that "ghost" is used synonymously, and it has a bit loaded meaning, so it draws us to imagine personal souls of men instead. The fact that soul and spirit are also used interchangeably in the Bible influences this thinking as well. However, soul is defined in the beginning of the Bible, when God made Adam's physical body and moved him, made him live with His living Presence or Spirit (Greek, pneuma, from where we have "pneumatics" - pneumatics basically means something intangible, airy having mechanical properties: moving solid things). "And Adam became a living soul". So soul is the sentient component of man and arises in the combination of body and quickening Spirit. To back this up, when I pulled all the references for "soul" and "spirit" in the Bible, it's only souls that get redeemed, and only souls sin. Spirit is God's living observing Presence within us ("the eyes of the Lord are in every place, seeing evil and good").
You really need to split a hair well if you are going to try to separate the soul from the spirit.
I know this God is spirit, what makes God God is the Spirit of God, I believe it totally represents His nature. Jesus being the exact representation of that nature expressed in the vessel of a man filled to the full with the Spirit of God, all that God is in His nature or essence. I would even say it is the spirit of man that is saved by the work of the cross and the union with the Spirit of God and it is the work of the Holy Spirit in sanctification that saves the soul of man, causing him to be sanctified and holy ready to enter the presence of God without loss.
I know this God is spirit, what makes God God is the Spirit of God, I believe it totally represents His nature. Jesus being the exact representation of that nature expressed in the vessel of a man filled to the full with the Spirit of God, all that God is in His nature or essence. I would even say it is the spirit of man that is saved by the work of the cross and the union with the Spirit of God and it is the work of the Holy Spirit in sanctification that saves the soul of man, causing him to be sanctified and holy ready to enter the presence of God without loss.
My point is that Jesus Christ IS GOD in the flesh, NOT just another vessel used by God like the angels and people.
ONLY Jesus was born of a VIRGIN because He is GOD in the flesh. Jesus is GOD saving us.
From your post #13:
Angels, people, even Jesus are vessels.
Yes the vessel has a spirit or nature of its own.
Some jars are plastic others glass others stainless steel
So if you grab a jar and open it and peanut butter is inside, is it peanut butter or is it a jar?
just like a jar is a peanut butter jar when it is full of PB,
A man is a God man when he is full of God.
Jesus was a man filled to the fullness of the Spirit of God.
This is how Jesus was fully God and how he was fully man.
NO other human was born of a virgin.
Jesus Christ is the Firstborn of many brethren meaning the children of God would all be born of the Spirit but, ONLY Jesus was born by a virgin - He is the Firstborn because He is God that created a flesh body for Himself so He could save us.
The Creator God wants a relationship with His Creation. The Creation is NOT the Creator. The Creation does NOT even get to exist if The Creator says it doesn't.
ONLY Jesus was born of a VIRGIN because He is GOD in the flesh. Jesus is GOD saving us.
From your post #13:
Angels, people, even Jesus are vessels.
Yes the vessel has a spirit or nature of its own.
Some jars are plastic others glass others stainless steel
So if you grab a jar and open it and peanut butter is inside, is it peanut butter or is it a jar?
just like a jar is a peanut butter jar when it is full of PB,
A man is a God man when he is full of God.
Jesus was a man filled to the fullness of the Spirit of God.
This is how Jesus was fully God and how he was fully man.
NO other human was born of a virgin.
Jesus Christ is the Firstborn of many brethren meaning the children of God would all be born of the Spirit but, ONLY Jesus was born by a virgin - He is the Firstborn because He is God that created a flesh body for Himself so He could save us.
The Creator God wants a relationship with His Creation. The Creation is NOT the Creator. The Creation does NOT even get to exist if The Creator says it doesn't.
OK valid point
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
So you are saying Jesus in his flesh was God???
Divine flesh???
So how is it that he aged?
How is it that he died?
His origins was from God, he existed in God from the beginning.
But when he shed his divine form to become a humble man through birth how was his flesh anything else then a man without the consequences of inherent sin?
The problem with exulting his flesh to some form of divinity is that it disqualifies him to represent us who have no such thing.
How is it that he can represent us who are just plain old flesh and not the special divine flesh?
That is why I ask the question.
How was Jesus God?
In origin, yes
in son-ship, yes
in Spirit, yes
in physical form as in his human flesh, NO.
He had to become like one of us in order to be our Savior.
In his flesh he was man without sin, nothing more or less then what Adam once was.
That is why he is called the second Adam.
Fully Man in his flesh to represent us.
Fully God in Spirit to save us.
it just brings his humbling sacrifice and obedience of becoming a man into a greater light.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
So you are saying Jesus in his flesh was God???
Divine flesh???
So how is it that he aged?
How is it that he died?
His origins was from God, he existed in God from the beginning.
But when he shed his divine form to become a humble man through birth how was his flesh anything else then a man without the consequences of inherent sin?
The problem with exulting his flesh to some form of divinity is that it disqualifies him to represent us who have no such thing.
How is it that he can represent us who are just plain old flesh and not the special divine flesh?
That is why I ask the question.
How was Jesus God?
In origin, yes
in son-ship, yes
in Spirit, yes
in physical form as in his human flesh, NO.
He had to become like one of us in order to be our Savior.
In his flesh he was man without sin, nothing more or less then what Adam once was.
That is why he is called the second Adam.
Fully Man in his flesh to represent us.
Fully God in Spirit to save us.
it just brings his humbling sacrifice and obedience of becoming a man into a greater light.
I don't believe I separated them though? Soul can't exist without the quickening Spirit of God, Adam "became a living soul" by God breathing His breath (Spirit) into Adam's body. God's Spirit however can exist autonomously, and did exist a lot before "Adam became a living soul".
I believe so too.
I think the soul is our individual nature, our selves. God is the Great I AM. If I say "I am" so and so, I am only operating on a self-hood that is borrowed from God, I am a steward. Since it's borrowed from Him, we must give answer to Him. But we have a tendency to think we own it, that we are kings in our castles.
That's why the Scripture says, whoever wants to preserve their life will lose it, but whoever loses it for Jesus' sake will find it. The Scripture teaches us that He must increase, but we must decrease, it cannot be preserved, Jesus is the only acceptable Son. What can be the final result of this? There will be no Soulweaver, no Lion222, only Jesus with His Spirit as He is the only Son that is acceptable. David said in Psalms that he was looking forward to "awake with His likeness". I believe that this is about God's Spirit, or as you said, God's nature. As in 1 Corinthians 15, there will be no corporeal body anymore, and I believe the living soul that existed in the earthen body is no more, it gets changed into living spirit, I base this belief from verse 45:
1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. ("awake with Thy likeness")
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Since we can give "the answer of a good conscience towards God" for our souls, thanks to Christ, like you mentioned in your post, new spirits are awarded to the believers and they are transformed into God's likeness: we awake with what was begotten of the Spirit, just this time manifested in full.
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
I believe so too.
I think the soul is our individual nature, our selves. God is the Great I AM. If I say "I am" so and so, I am only operating on a self-hood that is borrowed from God, I am a steward. Since it's borrowed from Him, we must give answer to Him. But we have a tendency to think we own it, that we are kings in our castles.
That's why the Scripture says, whoever wants to preserve their life will lose it, but whoever loses it for Jesus' sake will find it. The Scripture teaches us that He must increase, but we must decrease, it cannot be preserved, Jesus is the only acceptable Son. What can be the final result of this? There will be no Soulweaver, no Lion222, only Jesus with His Spirit as He is the only Son that is acceptable. David said in Psalms that he was looking forward to "awake with His likeness". I believe that this is about God's Spirit, or as you said, God's nature. As in 1 Corinthians 15, there will be no corporeal body anymore, and I believe the living soul that existed in the earthen body is no more, it gets changed into living spirit, I base this belief from verse 45:
1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. ("awake with Thy likeness")
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Since we can give "the answer of a good conscience towards God" for our souls, thanks to Christ, like you mentioned in your post, new spirits are awarded to the believers and they are transformed into God's likeness: we awake with what was begotten of the Spirit, just this time manifested in full.
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
My first thought was Adam a living soul was separated from God and died spiritually but kept on breathing for hundreds of years.
So did he continue to exist as a living breathing soul? Does a soul have a life of its own once created? Why do you say borrowed and not given? if they are not our and not given to us, how is it then that we as merely stewards sold them into slavery to sin and subjected the whole world that was under our rule to that sin and futility as well? I don't think God created us on loan. love requires freedom and we are created in that freedom for that love of God.
Ask any woman about a man who forces his love on them taking away her freedom to choose it. That is not a picture of God.
So freedom in integral to love.
Now we are talking about a life of slavery to sin and an off or exchange, one old life for one new one.
A dying life for an undying one
Payment made to purchase for us the freedom to be able to make that choice.
John B knew he was the embodiment and and end the old Jesus was the beginning of he new. I dont think the application is meant for how you are using it.
Now you are steping into John 17 one of my faves.. is it not no more us but us in him as one.
No more old sinful us but new spiritual pleasing to God awesome us..
The bride of spiritual hotness....
As a payment for sin, yes
As a means of making us acceptable, i believe that is the purpose of our gospel the rebirth of the Spirit man and the transformation of the soul into what he is in nature by that Spirit in us.
You are really making me work here. But i think you are worth the effort
We do receive the soul of Adam, we do not receive the soul of Jesus
in receiving the Spirit of Jesus we are made alive in Spirit, born again.
so that can be the life giving but the fact of having the living holy spirit of God in us
quickening of the soul via the sanctification work of that Spirit for the purposes of our salvation are clear in scripture.
SO one inseparable thing resulting from one acceptable sacrifice.
I I can not agree,
Jesus is still Jesus the man as in the soul of the man that he became and was. .
A man that learned obedience through the things he suffered.
That was not lost when He went home it was glorified.
I believe the same is to be expected by all believers.
Only what is done for christ will last. AKA the stuff of our souls that comes out of us for Him continues and get glorified and becomes what we will be in heaven.
That is related to position in the house of heaven, who will be at his right and his left who gets a seat by the door.
So did he continue to exist as a living breathing soul? Does a soul have a life of its own once created? Why do you say borrowed and not given? if they are not our and not given to us, how is it then that we as merely stewards sold them into slavery to sin and subjected the whole world that was under our rule to that sin and futility as well? I don't think God created us on loan. love requires freedom and we are created in that freedom for that love of God.
Ask any woman about a man who forces his love on them taking away her freedom to choose it. That is not a picture of God.
So freedom in integral to love.
Now we are talking about a life of slavery to sin and an off or exchange, one old life for one new one.
A dying life for an undying one
Payment made to purchase for us the freedom to be able to make that choice.
John B knew he was the embodiment and and end the old Jesus was the beginning of he new. I dont think the application is meant for how you are using it.
Now you are steping into John 17 one of my faves.. is it not no more us but us in him as one.
No more old sinful us but new spiritual pleasing to God awesome us..
The bride of spiritual hotness....
As a payment for sin, yes
As a means of making us acceptable, i believe that is the purpose of our gospel the rebirth of the Spirit man and the transformation of the soul into what he is in nature by that Spirit in us.
You are really making me work here. But i think you are worth the effort
We do receive the soul of Adam, we do not receive the soul of Jesus
in receiving the Spirit of Jesus we are made alive in Spirit, born again.
so that can be the life giving but the fact of having the living holy spirit of God in us
quickening of the soul via the sanctification work of that Spirit for the purposes of our salvation are clear in scripture.
SO one inseparable thing resulting from one acceptable sacrifice.
I I can not agree,
Jesus is still Jesus the man as in the soul of the man that he became and was. .
A man that learned obedience through the things he suffered.
That was not lost when He went home it was glorified.
I believe the same is to be expected by all believers.
Only what is done for christ will last. AKA the stuff of our souls that comes out of us for Him continues and get glorified and becomes what we will be in heaven.
That is related to position in the house of heaven, who will be at his right and his left who gets a seat by the door.
He was a man in the sense that he came as God in the form of man, he experienced all we experience he ate with us drank with us and wept with us.
The body is just a fleshly vessel that is all it is it is not who we truly are and was not who he truly was, The hidden self is in the heart in this case God in the flesh.
The body is just a fleshly vessel that is all it is it is not who we truly are and was not who he truly was, The hidden self is in the heart in this case God in the flesh.