Not By Works
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Oookay. 
I guess nearly every translation out there is a poor translation since they translate airei as "takes away; cuts off; cuts away; breaks off; removes; lops off".
I did find a "translation" that renders the word the way you say, "lifts up":
“I am a true sprouting vine, and the farmer who tends the vine is my Father. 2 He cares for the branches connected to me by lifting and propping up the fruitless branches and pruning every fruitful branch to yield a greater harvest. 3 The words I have spoken over you have already cleansed you."
It's called The Passion Translation.
Here's what Dr. Andrew Shead (Old Testament scholar and NIV Translation Committee member) said about this translation:
"...abandoning all interest in textual accuracy, playing fast and loose with the original languages, and inserting so much new material into the text that it is at least 50% longer than the original. The result is a strongly sectarian translation that no longer counts as Scripture; by masquerading as a Bible it threatens to bind entire churches in thrall to a false god."
I guess nearly every translation out there is a poor translation since they translate airei as "takes away; cuts off; cuts away; breaks off; removes; lops off".
I did find a "translation" that renders the word the way you say, "lifts up":
“I am a true sprouting vine, and the farmer who tends the vine is my Father. 2 He cares for the branches connected to me by lifting and propping up the fruitless branches and pruning every fruitful branch to yield a greater harvest. 3 The words I have spoken over you have already cleansed you."
It's called The Passion Translation.
Here's what Dr. Andrew Shead (Old Testament scholar and NIV Translation Committee member) said about this translation:
"...abandoning all interest in textual accuracy, playing fast and loose with the original languages, and inserting so much new material into the text that it is at least 50% longer than the original. The result is a strongly sectarian translation that no longer counts as Scripture; by masquerading as a Bible it threatens to bind entire churches in thrall to a false god."
I am not sure who rendered that word AIRO "takes away; cuts off; cuts away; breaks off; removes; lops off",
would be an error in LITERAL TRANSLATION!
It will not let me edit these following PASTES to delete unnecessary blank lines.
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Greek NASB Number: 142
Greek Word: αἴρω
Transliterated Word: airô
Root: a prim. vb.;
Definition: to raise, take up, lift:--
List of English Words and Number of Times Used
away (5),
bear (4),
carried (1),
carry (1),
get (4),
hoisted (1),
keep (1),
lifted (2),
pick (9),
picked (11),
pulls away (2),
put away (1),
raised (2),
remove (1),
removed (3),
suspense* (1),
take (13),
take away (5),
take...away (4),
taken (3),
taken...away (1),
taken away (12),
takes away (7),
taking (1),
took (2),
took...away (1),
took away (3),
weighed anchor (1).
An asterisk (*) indicates that at least one other original language word was also translated as this English word. Look up this word in the English NASB concordance for the additional original language word(s).
New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Greek Strong's Number: 142
Greek Word: αἴρω
Transliteration: airō
Phonetic Pronunciation: ah'ee-ro
Root: a primary root
Cross Reference: TDNT - 1:185,28
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Bear, Doubt (be in; make to), Doubtful, Doubting, Hoist up, Lift, Put, Take
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
take up 32
take away 25
take 25
away with 5
lift up 4
bear 3
miscellaneous translations 8
[Total Count: 102]
a primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figurative to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specially to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Hebrew [compare <H5375> (nasa')] to expiate sin :- away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
KJV = He taketh away
ASV = He taketh it away
NKJV = He takes away
NASB = He takes away
HCSB = He removes
NRSV = He removes
ESV = He takes away
NIV = He cuts off
NCV = He cuts off
NJB = He cuts away
GWT = He removes
YLT= He doth take it away
It that helpful ? I noticed true to their form the NIV, NCV, NJB added that word CUTS that IS NOT in the GREEK. The believe they must add words to the English BIBLE, to help keep it true to original meaning. IF THAT IS THE CASE the added word should have been in ITALICS, to indicate it was added to what was in the original language. I believe they WEAKENED the whole TRANSLATION, by not using Itatlics like that.
Now really do you believe GOD HAS TO GET A SAW AND CUT THE BRANCHES ? ? ? That CUT was man made symbolism not found in the original GREEK.
So every literal translation that renders the words in John 15, regarding what happens to the unfruitful branches, as being cut off, taken away, and removed are poor translations?
How convenient.
Perhaps what is really going on here is that you and yours are seeking to harmonize scripture with a doctrine that is poor and lacking; that needs unique translation renderings to force the scriptures into a system conceived by man.
How convenient.
Perhaps what is really going on here is that you and yours are seeking to harmonize scripture with a doctrine that is poor and lacking; that needs unique translation renderings to force the scriptures into a system conceived by man.
Why? Both are possibly lost and in need of meeting the King. Unfortunately in the US culture there's a lot of messaging that tells us that anything goes, so it seems to me the principle message of the church should not be one that allows the church to be conformed to the culture through "love." Are you really willing to allow people to go to hell comfortably?
Some churches in America and all around the world are changing the message of God's Word to suit culture, period. Our bibles are not written to "suit" anything other than the Word of God and the need for mankind to be reconciled to the Creator. We humans messed it all up. Only God can fix it all up.
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In a sense, I suppose. Without taking action on faith there is no faith. They may "believe" in the sense that they've agreed with a proposition, but pistis is better translated as fidelity than belief. And fidelity speaks to both action and beliefs as it has to do with being faithful. Flat belief is not the kind of faith spoken of by Paul which is exactly why James could say faith without works is dead without being in disagreement with Paul.
If you don't mind me asking.
Is it possible that works will be produced but not on account of genuine trust?
Should we be concerned about that?
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it must me a duck?
But what about a duck who do does not quack like a duck all the time?
Is it still a duck?
The duck being the perceived who trust and the quacks being the works.
Is it possible that works will be produced but not on account of genuine trust?
Should we be concerned about that?
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it must me a duck?
But what about a duck who do does not quack like a duck all the time?
Is it still a duck?
The duck being the perceived who trust and the quacks being the works.
It depends on what is meant by "works." Certainly things like feeding the poor, clothing the naked, and other works of piety can be done without a genuine trust as can any sort of religious work. The question here is about what we are preaching/teaching rather than trying to confront those who are not producing since there's a tendency to shy away from certain books of the Bible to avoid being "judgy" or "preaching a works based salvation." Ultimately, the kinds of works that trust produces may not look like actual work such as immediately turning to God in prayer when something happens in your life.
That could be applicable, though I didn't have a passage in mind. And of course not everyone who does such deeds is building on the foundation Paul speaks of. Most of my thoughts on this topic are based around James' discussion especially his use of Abraham as the example since Abraham's "work" isn't simply a pious action of devotion/obedience but hearing God's voice and trusting God to return Isaac to him as Hebrews 11 reveals.
