Not By Works

Romans 8:15-16

Ok..I see his post differently to you...hopefully he will explain what he means,when he returns.

AMEN!!..love your creativity.

As I already told you, the original post which you came in, was me expressing support for blue lake's comment.

You asked me questions about that post, as you are still doing now, I responded to you out of courtesy.

You are free to disagree with my response, I am fine.

You asked "one way or 2 way", my response was that you can only control what you do with your life.

You cannot control what others do.

That is my answer to your question.

I learned this from a pastor who used Paul's advice to those who are married.

He told all the men something like, "God commanded you to love your wife, as Christ loved the church".

He emphasized that Man's responsibility is to love their wife. How their wives treat them, whether their own wife respond with love or respect, is none of their business.

Ok..thank you for explaining.

Very interesting that when I looked at the passage in Strongs concordance, the word man is not even there. It is one of those assumed words. Here it is:

32And I,if I be lifted up from the earth,will draw all [men] unto me.

Even the word”all” can be translated as “of every kind” or “part of a totality”.

I think this might make my rendering more accurate.

You can click on the blue words above to see.

One cannot believe part of the bible and not believe all of the bible. There is only one Gospel and one Truth. God's Word is that.

I would really disagree with this.

For one thing Christ Jesus does make it His business how we respond to Him... it is not a one-way relationship.

If being gracious includes allowing them to think wrongly I would say no.

We are called to present God's truth to others, having good understanding ourselves.

Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures
Acts 17:2

That's solid.

When God draws, all those who are drawn come to God, are saved, and will be raised. This is the biblical doctrine of being drawn, and its extent; John 6:37-6:44 attests to this truth.

If the entirety of mankind were drawn according to John 12:32, then the entirety of humanity would come, be saved, and would also eventually be raised.

This text also shows the eternal security of the persons saved, just as all of his people will be drawn, and all his people will be saved, and all his people will be raised, it is also true none of these will ever be lost no matter how hard some try to make it so. It is simply untrue, it can never be lost, just make certain you have it in the first place.

Those who believe salvation can be lost, I pray you come to understand that Christ will never lose you if you are in Christ. Justification cannot be undone. Note John 10:27-28.

except the Father which hath sent me, draw him: which is not to be understood of moral persuasion, or a being persuaded and prevailed upon to come to Christ by the consideration of the mighty works which God had done to justify that he was the true Messiah, but of the internal and powerful influence of the grace of God; for this act of drawing is something distinct from, and superior to, both doctrine and miracles. The Capernaites had heard the doctrine of Christ, which was taught with authority, and had seen his miracles, which were full proofs of his being the Messiah, and yet believed not, but murmured at his person and parentage. This gave occasion to Christ to observe to them, that something more than these was necessary to their coming to him, or savingly believing in him; even the powerful and efficacious grace of the Father in drawing: and if it be considered what men in conversion are drawn off "from" and "to", from their beloved lusts and darling righteousness; to look unto, and rely upon Christ alone for salvation; from that which was before so very agreeable, to that which, previous to this work, was so very disagreeable; to what else can this be ascribed, but to unfrustrable and insuperable grace? but though this act of drawing is an act of power, yet not of force; God in drawing of unwilling, makes willing in the day of his power: he enlightens the understanding, bends the will, gives an heart of flesh, sweetly allures by the power of his grace, and engages the soul to come to Christ, and give up itself to him; he draws with the bands of love. Drawing, though it supposes power and influence, yet not always coaction and force: music draws the ear, love the heart, and pleasure the mind. "Trahit sua quemque voluptas", says the poet. The Jews have a saying (t), that the proselytes, in the days of the Messiah, shall be all of them, גרים גרורים, "proselytes drawn": that is, such as shall freely and voluntarily become proselytes, as those who are drawn by the Father are. - John Gill

Likewise, if you put yourself in their shoes, they also think they are trying to present God truth to you too.

Who do you think is the real protagonist in such a case, you or them?

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
John 12:30_32

Jesus is willing to save all... some doctrines teach that Jesus refuses to save all.

Jesus does want ALL to come to repentence (2 Peter 3:9) but not everyone who is offered Christ’s salvation will respond favorably.

Jesus draws people TO God, and those who will hear and respond and believe the revelation of God will be allowed to come to the Father.

Jesus has perfect knowledge. As blue lake mentioned using scripture, the rest of us argue in partial knowledge.

That is the difference

But how do you know for sure what you believe in about God word, is the truth?

Because the Bible IS God's Word.

Missed this verse in above post.

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
John 14:6

Psalm 8:1-5 King James Version (KJV)

8 O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.


How can mankind possibly believe he can do anything to earn God's love, mercy and grace. How can mankind possibly believe he can do any works, which will earn him what God has already offered?

A lot of us see what you mean. It's as plain as the nose on our faces.