Questions about JW’s

Where in the Bible do we find this notion that it had to be God who had to die for us for our sins to be forgiven, this is often taught in churches but nowhere expressed in the scripture. For example, why is it not possible for a perfect spirit being (angels are spirits) to take on human form and die for us?

The original manuscripts did not differentiate between Jesus being God with a capital G or lower case g. As the topic in hand is a sensitive matter I will simply state that I understand from the scriptures that Jesus is God, he simply isn't the "one God", since the 'one God' is only ever mentioned as being the Father, Jesus is a different God from the Father and is not the 'one God'. Jesus, despite being eternal at present, has not always eternally been God or a God.

Far too much waffling Webers. Your premise is false, the NWT reads "Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.".

Wherever you're finding these "JW Stumper questions" clearly isn't reliable. The NASB, KJV, NAS and WEB, to name a few all translate this verse the same as the NWT, so I'm again struggling to see the issue. You should really at least fact check what you read online before you plagiarise it here, you'll probably find it easier simply to copy and paste the URL of the webpage and make it easier on yourself.

.

I know about the awesome rock formations in Utah's Cañyon Lands, and I
know about the stone ruins left behind by an ancient civilization of native
Americans in Chaco Cañyon in the State of New Mexico. I've seen extensive
videos of both the Cañyon Lands and Chaco Cañyon on YouTube. But I've
never actually visited those locations and seen them for myself in person as
an on-site eye witness.

I sincerely believe that God knows all and sees all by omniscience.
However, He has neither seen nor heard all for Himself on-site in person in
real time because to the extent of my knowledge; God knows the future, but
He has not been there because God cannot travel in time any more than we.

Of course God knew Abraham would offer his son Isaac, and God knew all
along that Abraham was faithful; nothing that took place that day up on the
mountain took God by surprise. However, the offering of Isaac had never
taken place in real time until the very day it happened. Therefore God had
not yet been an eye witness to a real time event.

When Jehovah announced "Now I know", He was saying "Now I've actually
seen you in action for Myself in real time as an on-site eye witness rather
than just knowing about your actions in My head."
_

.
● John 2:18-22 . . The Jews said to him: "What sign have you to show us,
since you are doing these things?"

. . . In answer Jesus said to them: "Break down this temple, and in three
days I will raise it up." Therefore the Jews said: "This temple was built in
forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?"

. . . But he was talking about the temple of his body. When, though, he was
raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that he used to say
this; and they believed the Scripture and the saying that Jesus said.

The Watchtower Society insists that Jesus Christ's crucified human remains
are still deceased, and squirreled away somewhere on Earth in a location
and in a condition known only to God. (Whether the Lord's remains are
preserved intact or atomized isn't really known for certain.) So then in
Watchtower-think, the "temple of his body" is not speaking of a human
physical body; rather, of an angelic spirit body; specifically the arch angel
Michael's body.

If the Watchtower Society is correct; then it follows that God must've kept
Michael's angelic body on ice for the 33 ± years of his human existence in
preparation for the day when Michael would be restored to his existence as a
spirit being in fulfillment of John 2:18-22. (It's an interesting curiosity that if
and/or whenever an angel dies, it would leave behind a corpse.)

FAQ: What Scripture?

A: The primary Scripture is Psalm 16:10. In point of fact, the apostle Peter
referred to it in Acts 2:22-32.

Some good secondary Scripture is located in the 53rd chapter of Isaiah were
Christ is depicted as dying childless, yet later on generating offspring and
enjoying prosperity due to the auspices of God's providence.
_

If I understand correctly, the Watchtower organization does not teach the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I did have formal debates but it was with the Mormon cult elders. That of course is my mistake and I apologize. But I was invited to the Kingdom Hall and had a sit down with three elders on two differenct occasions. That was quite a few years ago. And I did answer your question by "all things."

Now I will answer you NWL. Why in the world would you ask me about Colossians 1:18 and think that I think "all things" or "everything" would include anything in the world? My point is that your are "NOT" considering the context or the whole of Scripture.

Jesus Christ is first or has the "pre-eminence" as it pertains to His role/work of Him being the Messiah. He's first over the creation since He is the creator. He was first/chief who rose from the dead in permanent manner, defeating death. He's first by being the "head" of the Church.

He's not the first person to be a murderer or go to the bathroom. See how "stupid" this sounds and your lack of common sense? Crossreference Colossian 1:19 with Colossians 2:9, "For in Him all the fulness of "Deity" dwells in bodily form." How do you explain this verse as it relates to you believeing Jesus is "a god?"

I also addressed "specifically" Revelation 3:14 and the guy you named used the word "arch" in a different context as it relates to evolution and not as it pertains to being the "origin" or architect of creation.

I already explained that if Jesus Christ is a created being Himself then how come is identified as the creator at John 1:3, Colossians 1:16 (where you guys insert the word "other" in the text) Hebrews 1:10 and of course Revelation 3:14. I still would like to know what these "other" things are that Jesus created.

John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16 have no/zero room for these so-called other things your positing. John 1:3, "and apart (or without Him) NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING." The word "nothing" here means "nothing" as it pertains to creation. Common sense would tell you that "nothing" would not mean that Jesus Christ created computers, tv's, iphones etc. THINK!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

.
Continuing from post No.423

The Word (a.k.a. the Logos) spoken of in John 1:1-14 was on track to
become a priest. (Heb 2:10-18, Heb 3:1, Heb 4:14-15, and Heb 5:1 thru
10:22)

Priests, especially High Priests, are mediators between God and Man.

Now in order for a priest to be an effective mediator, he has to be able to
feel both sides of the table. In other words: a priest has to be able to
sympathize with God's side of things equally with Man's side of things. In
order to do so effectively the High Priest himself really ought to be divine as
well as human. In other words; it would be ideal to have a High Priest who
has ample experience as both a man and a god.

Well; we know from John 1:1-14 that the Word was a god long before he
became a man. In point of fact, the Word created man; so he had been
observing men ever since Adam up until the days of the Roman world.

From observing humans all those years, the Word had a pretty good idea of
what they're like. However, the knowledge he had of human life was all in
his head; he himself had never been a man in order to know for himself, by
personal experience, how it feels to be a man.

Well; that shortcoming was solved by having the Word live as a man from
conception, to infant, to toddler, to adolescent, to teen, to adult, and finally
to manhood; the whole nine yards-- 33± years worth of human experience
so that when it was over, the Word could honestly say "Now I know what it's
like to be a human being." In other words: "Now I know for myself by
personal experience."

Curious boys can learn a lot about sleeping with girls by watching porn on
the internet and/or by leafing thru girly magazines. But that knowledge is all
in their heads. It's not till they actually sleep with a girl, skin to skin, that
they know for themselves what it's like; i.e. know from personal experience.

What I'm getting at is that there is such a thing as academic knowledge, and
another as experiential knowledge.

Going back to Abraham's offering of Isaac, God's knowledge of the outcome
of that event was academic. It wasn't until the event actually unfolded that
God's knowledge of it became experiential.

Coming at this from another angle; God knew in advance the names of
everyone who would eventually look to His son for a rescue from the sum of
all fears (Eph 1:4, Rev 17:8). But that knowledge is academic. God hasn't
actually seen each one of them do it in real time; so He isn't fully satisfied
until He personally witnesses each and every one of those names actually
step up, in real time, to follow His son. Then He can testify, in court if need
be: "I know for Myself who's chosen to follow My son because I actually saw
each one make that decision: I'm an eye witness."

Taking this a bit further: the Lord knows how each and everyone of us feels
about certain things. However, I do not recommend taking Him for granted.
Instead, speak up and tell Him what's on your mind even though He already
knows all about it because He wants to hear you say it in real time so that
when and/or if He says "I heard you" that means He actually did, i.e. you
weren't heard in His head, instead, you were heard in His ears.

● Phil 4:6 . . Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer
and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known
to God.
_

I thought this thread was supposed to be "Questions about JW", not questions "for" JW's or "bible students (JW lite)" (Weber's, who simply posts their website material).

Because all that which is created is subject to God and beneath God's law.


Their (all created beings) life is not their own.

The divine Son (aka 'Jesus') of God [that is to say, the Father, aka 'Ancient of Days'] was the only sacrifice of sufficient value to fully satisfy the claims of God's perfect law. The angels were sinless, but of less value than the law of God. They were amenable to law. They were messengers to do the will of Christ, and before him to bow. They were created beings, and probationers. Upon Christ no requirements were laid. He had power to lay down his life, and to take it again. No obligation was laid upon him to undertake the work of atonement. It was a voluntary sacrifice that he made. His life was of sufficient value to rescue man from his fallen condition.

Not one of the angels could have become surety for the human race: their life is God's; they could not surrender it. The angels all wear the yoke of obedience. They are the appointed messengers of Him who is the commander of all heaven. But Christ is equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. He could pay the ransom for man's freedom. He is the eternal, self-existing Son, on whom no yoke had come; and when God asked, "Whom shall I send?" he could reply, "Here am I; send me." He could pledge himself to become man's surety; for he could say that which the highest angel could not say,--I have power over my own life, "power to lay it down, and . . . power to take it again."

Notice of the Son (by typology) it is written:


The Son's place was eternally (John 1:1-3; 1 John 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:8-12) by the side of the Father, upon the throne of Deity and "equal with" the Father (Philippians 2:6) in the very "form of God" (Philippians 2:6), with eternal glory (John 17:5) before taking upon Himself the "form of a servant" (Philippians 2:7).

A created angelic (perfect) being cannot take on human form and die for anyone. The entire WTS theology is bankrupt at this point.

We must be careful how we hear if we desire to hear Him not seen. We are made unware of the wiles of the evil one (legion)

We are not as fatherless orphans or a widows without our husband Christ. left with no understanding from our father (not seen) .

He provides us all the tools to dig or search for buried treasure so that we can obey the loving law to study. . rightfully dividing (not adding or subtracting) so that we can seek the approval of Him who dwells in us. Again not just a good suggestion But a opportunity to show our love be obeying the commandment

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Salvation is the work of two working together as one. Two attributes of one God are used to bring the peace of God that does surpass our limited understanding.. God is not a man.

Jesus as the Son of man was used along with the father not seen for a one time promised outward demonstration to the whole world, of the work that had been finished from before the foundation of the creation. . The Son of man, Jesus like us had no power coming from the corruptible bodies, that do carry out the first death all the days of one life. The same wrath of God being revealed daily from heaven . (men dead in their trespasses and sin )

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

No such thing as holiness of the corrupted flesh and blood of fallen mankind . The same foundation of the fall. . . "Did God not seen really say you shall surely die" . Paraphrased...? Look at me and live who needs faith coming from a unknown .. (On your belly slithery one )

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

The JWs like others must assume that power to beleive is of us the beautiful feet ones. Shod with the gospel. Not the thoughts of those sent apostles .they have zero power. They lord it over the pew sitters .This is shown by the men they must venerate and seek their approval as if the elders were in the place of God. same applies to catholiscim requiring a man seen teach them . It is why both the catholic and JW's turn the blood issue upside down Putting some hope in their own earthen bodies of death .

Understanding how we can hear God (the hearing of faith) Our first loving experience of believing our father not seen . The same kind of experiential love that calls us to repent when we do deny him in unbelief. (no faith)

But rather revealed by the faith that He works in us. It is the key by which we can seek his approval. It as it is written unlock the gates of hell and sets its prisoners' free.

Read John 3:16 for clarification on this matter.

As far as the 'had' is concerned, Jesus, who is both human and divine, did not have to die for our sins but willingly did the will of the Father. Dying for our sins was an act of love. It says in 1 John 4:8 that God is love.

Even if possible, a perfect angel would not die for our sins because angels do not have a good understanding of the human condition. This is stated in the bible as well.

Why not just accept the scriptures in the bible and stop putting your own personal spin on this? This is called wresting scripture. This is stated in the bible as well.

Jesus has in fact has always been God. This is stated in the first verse of John. The NWT of the JW wrested this particular scripture, said that He was only a god (not capitalized) otherwise the entire JW doctrine falls apart. There is no other version or translation of the bible that states that Jesus was merely 'a god'.

If you don't believe the bible is the Word of God what's the point of the exercise of living? You can place your faith in men who will tell you what the bible says or you can place your faith in God and the Word of God which was graciously provided for us to comfort and guide us on our life's journey. You cannot however place your faith in both as the two are contrary to each other.

If you want to grow spiritually in your personal relationship with God you must discard the NWT, get an actual bible, and leave the cult of the JW. At this moment you are in a serious state of arrested spiritual development. It does not have to be this way.

"Today, when you hear His voice harden not your heart while it is still called Today". That is from a verse in Hebrews. My counsel is to have faith that verse is talking to you and to apply it as a firm spiritual foundation block on which to build your spiritual life upon.

Go outside of watchtower and INVESTIGATE the deity of Jesus.
That would be a good start.

Then look at Jesus words

"Why do you call me good? There is none good ONLY GOD"

"Destroy this temple and in 3 days I WILL RAISE IT UP"

Only God could resurrect.

You can place any being watchtower can come up with on that cross. Every single one of them will still be in the grave.
Only God can resurrect.

You can not hide,reframe,or disenfranchise it.
Watchtower can try for another 100 years and you will never ever get it done.

The bible,Jesus,and the Holy Spirit runs circles around every cult.

Your deal is so easy to shoot down any babe in Christ with a bible can do it.

The God man

Gods blood presented in heaven.
The perfect sacrifice.

The entire ot priesthood vividly paints the perfect sacrifice dynamic.

Sinless....HELLO.....SINLESS PERFECT SACRIFICE.

God on the cross.

The theme of redemption.

INNOCENT BLOOD.

GOD ON THE CROSS.

IN THE OT AN ANIMAL SACRIFICE ...SINLESS.....THE TEMPORARY EVER POINTING TO THE ONE PERMANENT EVENT.

IOW the basic foundation of the purposes of God.

Simple and so vivid God made sure mankind could not only get it....but without fail...simply come to Jesus the God man...and recieve the ultimate free gift.

So simple and beautiful . So lovely. So gracious of God.

And your insane leaders reject it.....and you follow them.

JESUS

THE STUMBLING BLOCK.

ALL YOU WATCHTOWERS DO IS STUMBLE OVER JESUS.

THIS THREAD IS SIMPLY WATCHTOWER STUMBLING OVER JESUS.

I am Jehova witness.

I testify as does Jehova of the Son.
His name is Jesus.
Me and Jehova are ready to give a detailed account of Jesus anytime and any place.

I made it my business to know my bible and invest in 3 greek bibles.

It clearly testifies the God of christianity ,correctly, is Jesus.

Clearly vividly and without fail shows the Deity of Jesus.

The Father says of the Son

"THY THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER"

JESUS EXAULTED ABOVE EVERY NAME SEATED IN HEAVEN.

Watchtowers are NOT Jehova witness.

They testify of their ORGANIZATION. THEY CLAIM TO BE THE WAY TO HEAVEN.

OH...WAIT...THEY SAY THEY DON'T GO TO HEAVEN...THEY SAY THEY STAY ON EARTH


HOW IRONIC.

THEY DO

One reason they reject the bible and change it is because they do not have the Holy Spirit.

They are mental.

If I were one of them,I would most likely stumble over Jesus.

They stumble and strive for a reason. ..They,sadly ,are lost.

But it is a "special brand" of lostness in that they teach others to be lost as well.

Dear God help them.

.
● Jonah 1:17 . . Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, so that
Jonah came to be in the inward parts of the fish three days and three nights.

FAQ: Was Jonah alive in the fish?

A: Yes. (Jonah 2:1)

FAQ: The whole time?

A: No.

FAQ: So you think Jonah died in the fish?

A: Jonah 2:5-7 strongly suggests that he drowned prior to being swallowed
by the big fish. In other words; there's cause to believe he wasn't buried
alive.

FAQ: The story claims Jonah prayed from within the fish. How's that possible
if he was dead?

Jonah's recorded prayer was spoken very close to the end of his adventure:
the bulk of those three days and three nights were practically over and done
with already. In other words; his recorded prayer fills in the blanks.

For a portion of that time, Jonah was in a place called sheol (Jonah 2:2)
which he sited at the roots of the mountains (Jonah 2:6) and from which he
prayed an unrecorded prayer.

Well; the roots of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no;
they're located down deep in the Earth. So, the only way that Jonah could
possibly be at the roots of the mountains while in the belly of a fish
simultaneously was for the man and his body to part company and go their
separate ways.

Also, the language of Jonah's recorded prayer strongly suggests that he
underwent a resurrection.

"But out of the pit you proceeded to bring up my life, O Jehovah my God."
(Jonah 2:6)

The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse speaks of putrefaction.

The very same Hebrew word is located in Ps 16:8-10, which Acts 2:25-31
verifies is speaking of a dead body.

FAQ: What's the story of Jonah to do with Jehovah's Witnesses?

A: The Watchtower Society insists that human life is entirely physical, viz:
when people die they go out of existence. But Jonah's prayer-- not the one
he prayed from inside the fish, rather, the one he prayed while down at the
roots of the mountains --strongly suggests that he was existing beyond the
demise of his body; which likewise suggests that Jesus was existing beyond
the demise of his body too because the Lord likened his own afterlife
experience to Jonah's. (Matt 12:39-40)
_

.
Continuing from post No.437

● Matt 12:40 . . Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.

The Greek word translated "heart" is kardia (kar-dee'-ah) which very often
refers to the middle, i.e. the center. For example:

● Matt 15:19 . . Out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders,
adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, railings

In other words: those kinds of activities originate at the very core of one's
being, i.e. their center.

Now when you think about it, Jesus' corpse wasn't laid to rest in the heart of
the earth. In point of fact it was laid to rest on the surface. So in order for
Jesus to be in two places simultaneously, the man and his body had to part
company and go their separate ways.

The Watchtower Society insists that human life is entirely physical, viz: when
people die they go out of existence. Even if that were true for everybody
else, it would certainly not be true for Jesus Christ.

● John 5:26 . . Just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the
Son also to have life in Himself.

Can the Father be taken out of existence? If not, then neither can the Son
be taken out of existence because the existence of both is maintained by the
very same kind of life.

NOTE: John 5:26 speaks of simple genetics. For example, when I
engendered my son, he came into the world with human life. The reason he
came into the world with human life is because his biological father had
human life; and in point of fact, human life is the only kind of life that I am
capable of passing on to my biological children.

If Jehovah really did engender the Word spoken of in John 1:1-14, then the
Word has the very same kind of life as Jehovah because Jehovah's life is the
only kind of life that He is capable of passing on to His biological children.

This is very interesting because it means that when Jesus' human body
expired on the cross, he himself continued to live on because his existence
isn't maintained by human life, rather, it's maintained by Jehovah's life;
which is 110% indestructible.

FAQ: Jehovah reproduced?

A: Yes.

FAQ: How?

A: I haven't a clue.
_

I would say the flesh is entirely physical made with the rudiments of this world . But the word of God is the Spirit that gives life. The body without the spirit has no value for that. But the things told you are from the Spirit, they give life.

True prayer is a "work" of God working in us giving us his faith to call for strength to both will and perform the good will of God not seen . Jonas was moved from inside by reasoning of sufferings to cry out over and over. Three in that parable seems to represent the end of the matter. . Same with the Son of man, Jesus, three days and three nights the father worked with him strengthening him to do the will of God . He suffered unto death. Not reaching true death. . . (eternal separation from the spirit of life) As revealed below

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Interestingly 4 days is used with Lazarus to indicate dead asleep to all who will hear the call . .rise come out. His word is spirit and life giving .“Lazarus, come out!”

Lazarus literally meaning . . .God Has Helped, My God Is Helper.

Lazarus a synonym for the bride of Christ... Christians. Christian a word literally meaning "residents of the city as the bride named after her husband Christ the founder.". You could say at the end of three days the father said Jesus rise .

Is there no end to your inventions? "Christian" does not literally mean what you say, nor is Lazarus a synonym for the bride of Christ, and there is absolutely nothing in Scripture even hinting that "4 days is used with Lazarus to indicate dead asleep...." .

You resist all attempts at instruction, but you have the audacity to attempt to instruct others. My goodness, man, you really need to stop!