Questions about JW’s

Dino246 · Jul 8, 2020

And to answer your question, "a follower of Christ". Originally it was a derogative, but came to be the name by which followers of Christ called each other.

garee · Jul 8, 2020

Dino246 said:

Thanks for the reply.

My goal would be to offer another option . How we can hear God and not man? You could say like a voce crying out in the wilderness. Looking up for direction and then forward in a hope of empowered by Christ who does dwell in the believers.

Many sects require its pew sitters to venerate men lording it over their faith. (false hope) Making them the source of approval .

Many words have had there meaning changed to give one more power or authroity than another. That's natural the world we live in .

The Bible informs us there must be heresies amongst us (Differences of opinions). From there we have the word sect or denomination. We are informed as long as the heresies do not make the Grace of Christ without effect. we can be safe.

Called is used 10 times in the new testament It is always identified of God not of men

Some say it is a derogatory word given by sinners used to self edify themselves as false self inflicted persecutions .

The more befitting name other that Israel (one nation) she was used prior the old testament bride .The new name our father called the bride made up of all the nations of the world is Christians Much is lost in its new meanings men have given .Like followers. . the work Christian do follow Christ who dwells in us

Words do have meanings.

The suffix "IAN" denotes residents of the city prepared as the bride named after her husband the founder of the the city.

1 Peter 4:16. Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Dino246 · Jul 8, 2020

garee said:

No; the meaning of a word changes over time as it is used in a different application.

garee said:

I'm glad you understand that. Now, please stop making up your own definitions for words (and multi-word terms) and start using the established definitions.

garee said:

The suffix "ian" does indeed denote something, but not what you believe, which is your opinion, not a fact. Does the suffix "ian" in "Canadian" denote residents of the country prepared as the bride named after her husband the founder of Canada?

No.

Webers.Home · Jul 8, 2020

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POSIT: Luke 16:19-31 has to be a parable because according to Matt 13:34
and Mark 4:3, when Jesus spoke to crowds, he spoke only in parables and
never in plain speech.

RESPONSE: The gist of those two references merely indicates that Jesus
always included at least one parable in his sermons rather than that his
sermons were spoken totally in parable form. In point of fact, many of the
Lord's sermons preached to crowds were plain-spoken without hidden
meanings; for example Mark 12:35-37 which says;

"While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked: How is it that the
teachers of the law say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself,
speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared: "The Lord said to my Lord: Sit at my
right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." David himself calls him
"Lord." How then can he be his son? The large crowd listened to him with
delight."

Jesus was speaking that day in the Temple courtyard which, at the time, was
a convenient venue for anybody with the moxie and the wherewithal to set
up a soap box and preach to one and all who cared to listen. He went on to
say other plain-spoken things to the crowd that day sans hidden meanings.

Another example is Mark 12:38-40 which says:

"As he taught, Jesus said: Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to
walk around in flowing robes and be greeted in the marketplaces, and have
the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at
banquets. They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy
prayers. Such men will be punished most severely."
_

WithinReason · Jul 8, 2020

WithinReason said:

Because all that which is created is subject to God and beneath God's law.

Pro_22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

Act_17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

Their (all created beings) life is not their own.

The divine Son (aka 'Jesus') of God [that is to say, the Father, aka 'Ancient of Days'] was the only sacrifice of sufficient value to fully satisfy the claims of God's perfect law. The angels were sinless, but of less value than the law of God. They were amenable to law. They were messengers to do the will of Christ, and before him to bow. They were created beings, and probationers. Upon Christ no requirements were laid. He had power to lay down his life, and to take it again. No obligation was laid upon him to undertake the work of atonement. It was a voluntary sacrifice that he made. His life was of sufficient value to rescue man from his fallen condition.

Not one of the angels could have become surety for the human race: their life is God's; they could not surrender it. The angels all wear the yoke of obedience. They are the appointed messengers of Him who is the commander of all heaven. But Christ is equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. He could pay the ransom for man's freedom. He is the eternal, self-existing Son, on whom no yoke had come; and when God asked, "Whom shall I send?" he could reply, "Here am I; send me." He could pledge himself to become man's surety; for he could say that which the highest angel could not say,--I have power over my own life, "power to lay it down, and . . . power to take it again."

Notice of the Son (by typology) it is written:

Num_19:2 This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

The Son's place was eternally (John 1:1-3; 1 John 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:8-12) by the side of the Father, upon the throne of Deity and "equal with" the Father (Philippians 2:6) in the very "form of God" (Philippians 2:6), with eternal glory (John 17:5) before taking upon Himself the "form of a servant" (Philippians 2:7).

A created angelic (perfect) being cannot take on human form and die for anyone. The entire WTS theology is bankrupt at this point.

Look, if those who are JW and those who are JW lite (bible students) cannot address this central point, the rest is pretty much moot.

JohnR7 · Jul 8, 2020

garee said:

Yes God made us male and female. He divided us so that He could unite us. He also made us Heaven and Earth in the same way we are divided so that we could be united. As Jesus taught us to pray: "Thy Kingdom come, they Will be done, on Earth as in Heaven". This is why we look forward to the: "marriage supper of the Lamb". (Revelation 19:9)

JohnR7 · Jul 8, 2020

Magenta said:

Yes Adam and Eve were different from the man that God created before Adam. "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." (Genesis 2:7) This breath comes from God and is different than oxygen.

"The Great Oxygenation Event (GOE) was the introduction of free oxygen into our atmosphere. It was caused by cyanobacteria doing photosynthesis. It took a very long time, from about three billion years ago to about one billion years ago. Photosynthesis was producing oxygen both before and after the GOE". (wiki)

JohnR7 · Jul 8, 2020

NWL said:

We find this in Leviticus in the word "atonement". Before that we read in Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.” This is a reference to Jesus. I would like to see the first conversation that Mary had with Eve. Jesus comes from the seed of Eve but Mary birthed Him into this world. Angels do not have a physical body. So they are not of this world and not qualified to die for us.

JohnR7 · Jul 8, 2020

NWL said:

Jesus is the word of God and He was with God in the Beginning when the "morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy" (Job 38:7) Mary birthed Jesus into the world and that is when He took on flesh.

garee · Jul 9, 2020

JohnR7 said:

Yes the literal fulfillment two do become one new creature called the bride. No males or females, Jews nor gentiles.

No remembrance of them (the division)

Webers.Home · Jul 9, 2020

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The Watchtower Society argues that the account of the metemorphe
(transfiguration) found at Matt 17:1-9 showed Jesus' true angelic form,
proving his ability to materialize a human form at will. Oh?

According to the Society's own doctrines, it is impossible to exist as a spirit
being and a human being simultaneously. Now this is important to note
because in order for Jesus to exist in human form, his angel form had to be
terminated. So at the time of the transfiguration, Jesus' human form was his
true form, viz: if anything, the transfiguration would prove not his ability to
materialize himself as a human, rather, as an angel.

Had Jesus Christ undergone a change of nature in the transfiguration scene,
he would have also undergone a change of name, but at no time during the
event was he ever referred to as Michael; instead, throughout the event
continued to be referred to as Jesus; which is his human name.

During the event, a voice from heaven identified Jesus as "my beloved son".
According to the first chapter of the letter to Hebrews, God has never taken
an angel as either His son or His heir.

All three of the synoptic gospels report the transfiguration event as a
preview of the future kingdom; which, according to Heb 2:5-8 will be ruled,
managed, and supervised by human beings rather than by angel beings.

Ergo: in order for Jesus to rule the kingdom as a human being, his human
body would have to be restored to life because a materialized human body is
not human; it's an avatar.

This presents a knotty problem for the Society because according to its
teachings, Jesus' body cannot be restored to life. It has to stay dead and
cached away somewhere on the earth in order to remain an effective
sacrifice for the sins of the world. The Watchtower Society's rather curious
claim is located on page 237 of the April 15, 1963 issue of the Watchtower
magazine; which reads:

"If Jesus were to take his body of flesh, blood, and bones to heaven and
enjoy them there, what would this mean? It would mean that there would be
no resurrection of the dead for anybody. Why not? Because Jesus would be
taking his sacrifice off God's altar."

NOTE: All the first covenant's sacrifices were removed from the altar, none
were allowed to remain, not even their ashes. And besides, "God's altar"
wasn't the earth; it was the cross, from which Jesus' body was removed the
very afternoon of his death.

I'm a fan of a very bright woman named Marilyn vos Savant. There was a
time when she penned a weekly column in the Sunday paper's Parade
Magazine. Her tested IQ is somewhere in the 200 range. Marilyn received a
question that goes like this:

FAQ: Our family has been arguing about this: If a person makes a
statement, and another person challenges it; who has the burden of proof?

A: Usually the person who makes an affirmative statement (defined as a
statement that asserts a fact, makes an allegation, or favors an action; etc)
has the burden of proof. America's justice system is an example. The
prosecution (or the plaintiff, as the case may be) rather than the defense,
must prove its case to the jury. Failure to prove its case, requires that the
defense be exonerated.

In other words: when the Society makes a claim like the one on page 237 of
the April 15, 1963 issue of the Watchtower magazine; it has a moral
obligation to substantiate it because the Society's opponents are not
required to prove that the Society's claims are false.

No, it is incumbent upon the Society to prove its claims are true; and they
should never be given a green light to do it by rationalizing, nor by
humanistic reasoning, semantic double speak, and/or clever sophistry; no,
they have to show it not only from scripture, but also in scripture. They
claim that Jesus' crucified body is still deceased. If that claim cannot be
shown from scripture, and in scripture, then sensible jurisprudence demands
their claim be thrown out of court as spurious fiction.

The fact of the matter is that had Jesus morphed into an angel; the sacred
text would say so; but it doesn't; indicating that the Society has gone and
done something very common with cultists like Joseph Smith, Mary Baker
Eddy, Herbert W. Armstrong, David Koresh, and Jim Jones: it has forced the
Bible to mean things that it does not say in writing. According to 2Pet 3:15,
people might just as well put a gun to their heads when they do that.

NOTE: If it were so that Jesus was appearing in the form of an angel during
the transfiguration, then it must stand that so were Moses and Elijah.

"And as he was praying the appearance of his face became different and his
apparel became glitteringly white. Also, look! Two men were conversing with
him, who were Moses and Elijah. These appeared with glory . . ." (Luke 9:29
31)

Incidentally, the vision was a preview of the kingdom of God (Mark 9:1. And
Luke 9:27). Well; according to John 3:3-12 the venue of the kingdom of God
will be down here on earth rather than up in heaven. And also, in order to
qualify for entry into the kingdom of God, it is necessary to first undergo a
special birth which Jesus described as "born from water and spirit". (John
3:5)
_

Absolutely · Jul 9, 2020

JohnR7 said:

Yes
It is a continuation.

He,in heaven,came down,and became flesh.

Not a new being...a God-Man

Absolutely · Jul 9, 2020

Dino246 said:

Where was it once derogative?

Absolutely · Jul 9, 2020

JohnR7 said:

It had to be God on the cross for 3 basic reasons (among others)
Sinless perfection

The blood

The fact only God could resurrect.

Put anyone but God on that cross and salvation is lost for the world.

Dino246 · Jul 9, 2020

Absolutely said:

I can't point to a documented source, but I understand that the early followers of Christ were called "Christians" (little Christs) in a pejorative sense by Jews and Romans.

JohnR7 · Jul 9, 2020

Absolutely said:

Do you mean the cosmos, the universe. Jesus died so that all could be saved. All are written in the Lamb's Book of life from the foundation of the world. But He will deny those who deny Him and their name will be blotted out of His book.

Revelation 3:5
Like them, the one who is victorious will be dressed in white. And I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels.

Revelation 20:10
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

JohnR7 · Jul 9, 2020

Absolutely said:

He became flesh because Mary birthed Him into the world.

Webers.Home · Jul 9, 2020

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POSIT: It is impossible for Jesus Christ to be in heaven as a human being in
the presence of God because 1Tim 6:16 says that the king of all kings dwells
in an unapproachable light, whom "not one of men" has seen or can see.

RESPONSE: The Greek word translated "unapproachable" also means
inaccessible; which right there attests that humanity needs a mediator
between itself and the light to provide them at least an indirect access.

Note that the passage below is misquoted. Watch for the revision.

"There is one God, and one mediator between God and men; an angel:
Christ Michael." (1Tim 2:5)

No, that passage doesn't actually say "an angel" nor does it actually say
"Christ Michael". Here it is for real.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men; a man:
Christ Jesus."

The Greek word for men, as well as the word for man, is derived from
anthropos (anth'-ro-pos) --a common Greek word for human beings in the
New Testament.

So it's readily seen from a cursory examination of the Greek that the
mediator spoken of in 1Tim 2:5 is a human being rather than an angel.

Seeing as how Christ Jesus is allowed access to the inaccessible light as a
human being, then it's safe to conclude that there has to be something very
unusual about him.

Well; for one thing, his body is no longer that of mortal men. When he went
up to heaven, Christ Jesus' body underwent a miraculous transformation. It's
still human, that we know, but its chemistry is unlike any human body on
Earth. (1Cor 15:50-53)

For another, Christ Jesus is not only human, but also divine (John 1:1, John
1:18, and Col 2:9). That alone would surely be enough to grant him some
special privileges, and it does. For example: the angel Gabriel stands in the
presence of God (Luke 1:19) while Christ Jesus the man is seated. (Ps
110:1, Col 3:1)
_

NOV25 · Jul 10, 2020

The list we’ve complied so far.

1. Deny the deity of Jesus
2. Deny the Trinity
3. Deny Jesus’s bodily resurrection
4. Jesus is an Angel?
5. They don’t believe in hell/no eternal punishment
6. Only 144,000 will go to heaven
7. Jesus is Lucifer’s brother.
8. The curse of Adam/the fall was lifted after the tree.
9. Sinless perfectionism
10. The Atonement. “Adam was perfect which required another perfect life to be sacrificed to balance the scales” This was the purpose of the tree, not to atone for sins of believers.
11. Eternal life for unbelievers. Billions will achieve eternal life without belief or obedience to God.
12. New World Translation is the “bible” compiled by JW’s. NT released in 1950, OT released in 1961. Heavily edited to fit their denial of Jesus’s deity.
13. Deny the omniscience of God.

Micaiah-imla · Jul 10, 2020

NOV25 said:

That’s a strange one, considering they do not seem to believe in walking in the Spirit to achieve this.

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