We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ.

I never heard of a Christian who believes they have a new nature in the spirit of Christ. Not one.

What Paul has written goes far beyond baptism.
Baptism is an initiation to to our Christian faith.
It is the beginning but the what Paul writes is living in the Spirit.
The realm of the Holy Spirit goes far beyond the flesh and in that
you are totally wrong because scripture says sin diminishes far
beyond the flesh. You people write as the Pharisees did. They
did not understand a single thing Jesus said. They were there
to pick and to argue every single word. Because they got so
irate they had to kill him. There is no point in my discussing with you.

You are totally ignorant of power of the holy Spirit Paul alluded to.
As long as all you know are words you will be woefully void of the
Spirit. You would rather argue words than to turn your soul to God.
If Jesus was here, he would blast you far more than I did. So please
just live in your ignorant bliss and leave me alone. My destination
to God's mansion is secure, I have no fear so stop trying to lower
me to your level.

We died with Christ (sin nature died) at our new birth, and then resurrected with Christ (our new nature) at our new birth, so now we are new creatures in Christ Jesus. Our spirit level has been completely changed, but we still live in the flesh, and thus have a daily battle with sin. But we have the inner power source for victory at the spirit level: the Holy Spirit lives in our renewed spirit.

I never heard of a Christian who believes they have a new nature in the spirit of Christ. Not one.

There is no sin in Christ. None.

In your Post #68, you stated:


I asked you in Post #120 "How do you "reprogram" that "carnal mind" that "still function as programmed?”

In other words, I am asking you how do you renew your mind (you personally … how do you renew your mind).

I know what I do … I’m interested in what it is that you do.

And please do not direct me to your link. I will not open a link to another site.

Just explain in your own words (and with Scripture if you'd like) how you renew your mind. Thanks.

Relic ... you replied to a post I submitted in response to Peterlag.

Not sure why you're so upset with my clarifying that the new creation within does not come about by my giving up "my will" and accepting "God's will".

Again, the new creation is God's doing ... He seals us with that Holy Spirit of promise when we are born again and we are then able to "give up [our] will" and "accept God's will".

What I said is wholly Scriptural and you are free to ignore me ... although I will clarify matters if/when needed, even if you do ignore.

Well they were punished for their sin by death. So it’s not like it didn’t count.

Why would Enoch be different and an exception and how come no one in the OT said anything close to this?

I don't understand this system of posts, I thought I was addressing your comment,
it was jumped I guess. In that I apologize fully. As far as clarification, I will skip that
because there isn't thing in Christ you would be capable of enlightening me on.
thanks anyway.

he write all this in 1st person present tense. he's talking about himself.

the opening paragraph of the chapter continues what he has been saying about the truth of every believer, that the body is dead but the spirit is life.

it's really awkward to try to force the things that follow in chapter 7 to be hypothetical pre-belief person-without-God business. it does not fit the narrative at all, and it contradicts the grammar.

in first person present tense he says, 'with his mind he serves God' -- is this talking about unbelievers? really?
there is a very clear, very straightforward thing being said. it is IMO the bias introduced by people whose doctrines have no room for the truth of this that tries to interpret it contrary to what it plainly says. many things in scripture are hard sayings, difficult to accept - and many things are mysteries, difficult to comprehend. the struggle of the flesh vs. the spirit in the life of a person who serves God in spirit but stumbles in the body is not a difficult thing to interpret, but it may be hard to acknowledge, and to accept.
it flows very naturally from ch. 1-5 and segues perfectly to ch. 8

he write all this in 1st person present tense. he's talking about himself.

the opening paragraph of the chapter continues what he has been saying about the truth of every believer, that the body is dead but the spirit is life.

it's really awkward to try to force the things that follow in chapter 7 to be hypothetical pre-belief person-without-God business. it does not fit the narrative at all, and it contradicts the grammar.

in first person present tense he says, 'with his mind he serves God' -- is this talking about unbelievers? really?
there is a very clear, very straightforward thing being said. it is IMO the bias introduced by people whose doctrines have no room for the truth of this that tries to interpret it contrary to what it plainly says. many things in scripture are hard sayings, difficult to accept - and many things are mysteries, difficult to comprehend. the struggle of the flesh vs. the spirit in the life of a person who serves God in spirit but stumbles in the body is not a difficult thing to interpret, but it may be hard to acknowledge, and to accept.
it flows very naturally from ch. 1-5 and segues perfectly to ch. 8

In your Post #68, you stated:


I asked you in Post #120 "How do you "reprogram" that "carnal mind" that "still function as programmed?”

In other words, I am asking you how do you renew your mind (you personally … how do you renew your mind).

I know what I do … I’m interested in what it is that you do.

And please do not direct me to your link. I will not open a link to another site.

Just explain in your own words (and with Scripture if you'd like) how you renew your mind. Thanks.

How do you know that Romans 7 seems to have the whole Christian world in confusion? I don't find it to be confusing at all.

He does not say the Christian. He's not talking to the Christian. Here's another example. Romans 10:9-10 is not talking to the Christian either.

Huh? Well, then you have never met my church, my family, and the school where I teach. We all teach and believe this way. We may say it a little differently than you do in your post, but essentially I agree completely with your original post #1 - I have not had time to read everything inbetween.

I simply believe because at this level to renew the mind is not to make it behave, but rather to make it believe. In doing so I bond in my mind with the spirit of Jesus Christ. I believe to renew the mind is to put on the mind of Christ. To put on the new man. Everyone that I talk to on here seems to think to renew the mind means to clean up their flesh. And this is why you are not understanding me.

You and I ARE NOT Christ!

Because everyone I talk to about this subject tells me about Romans 7 and how they believe they must continue to clean up their flesh. Or war with it. I simply believe because at this level to renew the mind is not to make it behave, but rather to make it believe. In doing so I bond in my mind with the spirit of Jesus Christ.

By believing the WORD of GOD and applying It to any situation you might be In.The just shall live by faith Is not Only talking about salvation but It's also talking about your walk or continuous washing /sanctification.

Believe the spiritual mirror(the bible)and not what you can See physically In the mirror at the house.