THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

Premise 1: Works prove saving faith.
Premise 2: Saving faith saves.
Conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.
Thus lordship salvation preaches the heresy of works based salvation. Simple.

You disobey mathew 5:48 & pretend you have submitted to the will of God!!!

And @EleventhHour

I was referring to Thomas M. Cucuzza who slandered Dr. MacArthur by grossly and reprehensibly misquoting him.

Yes way off on that topic.

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

I did a search this is in his commentary... Google books.. the link is way to long for some reason.

See "submission" I give in order to receive >>>> Lordship salvation

Well maybe that is not what he means .. that is always the perennial problem.

Does the Holy Spirit also remind you that you are disobedient to mathew 5:48? How did you respond?

Yo

Brother, please refer to the following link:
https://www.soulwinning.info/fd/lordship_salvation/dr_rice_refutes.htm

Actually what it seems to me @EleventhHour is with his constant use of Matthew 5:48 that there is more to it than that and it is possible that there is an agenda rooted in something, perhaps bitterness. Although I do appreciate you trying to see eye to eye with the poster.

I know that when I've tried to wrap my mind around a scripture in my flesh it can get to this level.

Essentially this verse could present an impossible command, "be ye perfect ..." Any sin is imperfection, therefore this standard is impossible. Any time you get low or down or feel like giving in, you strap your pack (cross) and dig in and war against the flesh in a lifelong struggle toward that perfection. How can one have assurance if they fall short of perfection?

"...for all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God" This verse doesn't say all do sin, merely all have. Can I draw from that sentence that it is indeed possible and that there is a way to lead a sinless life and be "perfect"?

You see how you can take a lot of "troubling" lines of thinking down on many unproductive trails...and indeed I've lived out "brute force righteousness" but by doing that personally, I end up being unable to contain other things and still fail when I do it in myself and the process of letting the Lord work his righteous in me by following him, abiding, picking up my cross is a bit harder to discern, and it something like watching your hair grow in a mirror. The less you focus on it, the more you seem to notice...you can definitely see it reflected in others at times...or at least I have and I hope others have had a similar experience.


Personally, this particular verse (Mt 5:48) has been accusatory at times based of the above line of thinking. So I would ask at present @Sudakar is what does perfection mean in context with this verse?

Where are you going? No offense, but questions with very little interaction with the responses looks like baiting. If not, you seem to be desirous of driving a point home but consider that the Lord has used many different ways of shining a light on our understanding and yet hiding it from some at the same time. Perhaps a different method?

In regard to faith and how "assurance" works. Faith and human sight (that which can be seen/observed/divined/experienced) are integrated in a unique equation that is impossible for me to describe. Some days I have doubts, and others I don't. There's
a lot more to be said for doubt both intellectual doubts and our own spirit's doubting, but I've been rather long in posts lately, so I'll just skip that unless someone would find it useful.

I don't have a lot of the perfection verse figured out, except that perfect love seems to be the context. I think we most certainly are vessels at times for the Lord's perfect love displayed either to us privately, or to others by many ways. So if his love be in us, we can walk according to that perfect love and perhaps in his sight that is perfection.

Of COURSE that said within context of being a sheep following the good shepherd

Sounds really Biblical to me. Examine to see if you are in the faith in other words. Hard sell in today's lukewarm time

I think you know the answer

I have to wonder if this behavior of his is baiting as well. Any and all refutations, answers, correction offered are ignored.

But I digress. Any person misusing Matthew 5:48 to mean something we achieve, do, work, accomplish is out on a limb. It is apparent the meaning of the text in light of the Gospel is that to be perfect is to be in Christ. This is the message of Ephesians, Colossians, Romans, the entirety of the Gospel itself throughout the OT and NT. To be in Christ is the end all, it means the person is eternally saved, secure, cannot be lost; note Ephesians 1. We are made perfect in him.

The instruction to be perfect given to believers goes along with the sanctifying work of God, they, those truly converted, desire this to be so. Note Hebrews 12:14; Philippians 2:11-13; 1 John 3:3; John 17:19; 2 Corinthians 3:18ff.

So you are against works based salvation, but you promote sinless perfection and don't consider that works based salvation?

Premise 1: Works prove saving faith.
Premise 2: Saving faith saves.
Conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.
Thus lordship salvation preaches the heresy of works based salvation. Simple.

The questions are, what type of works and how many works proves salvation?

Premise 1: Works prove saving faith.
Premise 2: Saving faith saves.
Conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.
Thus lordship salvation preaches the heresy of works based salvation. Simple.

Premise 1: Works prove saving faith.

Premise 2: Saving faith saves.

Conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.

Thus lordship salvation preaches the heresy of works based salvation. Simple.

Okay, again I agree up to the conclusion really, but still absent from the whole "equation", from my point of view anyway is ANYTHING at all about the Spirit. That's troubling to me honestly. I guess I may be a bit more hyper aware of this kind of thing because of how long I sat in a church hearing the preacher preach His word, thinking I was as "saved" as one could be, but knew nothing about His Spirit, the vital role He plays in our salvation, and was still as lost as can be. Only thinking I was a Christian. When I don't hear about His Spirit in your words it honestly is concerning to me, because there is so much more to God than words on paper. Praise His name for every letter He's revealed to us, and these words are the very power of God to save men, I can't stress their importance enough, but "saved" means something, once we are saved, truly saved, I've been both, we enter into His kingdom right here on earth in our midst. Take everything our King said about His coming kingdom and see, if we are born again we are in His kingdom right now, again if these thing sound strange to you, it might be Him calling you, drawing you deeper because your rational here is a bit off somehow. You are ONLY focused on the flesh side of things completely blind to the spiritual. I am trying to trend very lightly here because I am no one. I am no judge or checker of soul status, and I pray you see these words as a loving warning and not a big headed judgement of your soul status, but I say this also with as much sincerity as I can convey in words here, but being so seemingly blind of these things point to one still being in the flesh. I don't know you and I DO know God works in each on of us differently and for His purpose, so I KNOW that I have no clue how that may be going in you. I could be so far off base here as to have embarrassed myself, and if so I am sorry, but I cannot hear these things without sharing the concerns that rise when I'm reading your words. All I'm saying is ask yourself if you've been born again. I'd love to hear how and all about it if you're up for sharing, but if you find that you still have no clue about this "spirit stuff" I'm talking about, this very well may be the time Jesus is calling you to come.

You can ask the lordship Salvationists.

More trolling? What's wrong? After your many posts few are engaging you?

I don't blame them.

I will answer you and you can get you last words in as you've been proven false from the beginning of your errant OP.

Works (fruit) are evidence of conversion, not the cause. True conversion, true believers, and false, are all qualified by Scripture, both true, and false. You may want to give 1 John a read through, and examine yourself to see whether you are converted, or not.



We are saved by grace which is through faith; Ephesians 2:8-10. Faith is the gift of God, Ephesians 1:19; 2 Peter 1:1.



If there is no evidence of conversion there was no conversion. All truly converted are transformed, and show evidence. Note 2 Corinthians 3:18ff, Hebrews 12:14.




You continue to come up with baseless illogical conclusions and conflate evidence of conversion with works. You preach Antinomianism (lawlessness) which is a false gospel condemned by Sctipture. Note what Christ says about this in Matthew 7:21-23.

Those who adhere to so-called Lordship Salvation believe salvation is 100% of God and none of man.

Now, go ahead and get your last word in.

Ephesians2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — 

2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Nice verses, I've read'em before. But what do you have to say about what I wrote. You've addressed nothing at all to the point you can only be playing games now.