THIRD TEMPLE NEWS

Disclosure: I am a pre-TRIB rapture advocate and believer.

Suggestion: Carefully consider the possibility that the audience whom Jesus is addressing (in this warning yet future) are in fact his brothers the Israelites, and not the Church.

IMO The church is being addressed in verses 4 through 14 (the gospel is being preached and then the "end will come"). This would be the fullness of the gentiles coming in (Rom 11:25).


The topic then changes (from preaching to the tribulation), as does the audience, in verses 15 thru 31. Jesus is now warning his brothers the Israelites of the certainty of the tribulation, the specific case of the "man of sin" and the AoD (occurring in the temple in Jerusalem), and a warning to flee.

Also consider Luke 21 and how it proves to be different than Matt 24 and Mark 13.....see below.

Hi,
Yes, I'm familiar with those breakdowns and did study along with Chuck Missler a bit some years back. He did some useful and informative studies, charts & good research. He threw in a lot of teachings from others with which I can't agree though. I remember he always said to challenge and not to blindly accept everything he said. Good Advice. That doesn't mean I reject his work, he was a good teacher. Just that I'm sceptical about some of the theories he presented.

The future redemption of national Israel may be the most significant theme in all of the Bible and Biblical prophecy. But if you so choose to measure in terms of sheer volume of the text there is no doubt about it.

I THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR TESTIMONY!

OH YES, I TOTALLY BELIEVE YOU. IT IS TOO SIMILAR TO MY TESTIMONY. YES, I TOO THOUGHT SUICIDE WAS THE ANSWER, BUT GOD STOPPED ME.

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Do You Know Why I Adamantly Believe in the Born Again experience, and the Once Saved, Always Saved positions?

Believe me, NEITHER was taught in the Church that I was Raised In. It was an old fashion German style of Lutheran Church. No Body ever even mentioned those two Beliefs to me, while I was growing up.

I remained, not Saved, but thought I was a Christian, because I took up space on a Church Pew once in awhile. Some body should have told me, that if sitting in a garage, did not make me a Car; why would just sitting in a pew, would make me a Christian. I was NOT Saved, until I was almost 29 years old on about December 30, 1977, and I was raised in that Church my whole life prior to that. On December 24, 1977, I was told by my wife of only 6 months, "I want a Divorce, because you cannot earn enough money to buy me what I want in life."

That sent me into a tailspin, into deep depression. During the Following week, I attempted SUICIDE three different times. The first time I made up my mind that I knew I did not care if I hurt my parents, or even my brother or sister. I just did not want to live another DAY. I sat on the bed with a pistol against my head, and with the trigger half pulled. The is when the Lord intervened, HE PUT SUCH A SHEAR TERROR IN MY HEART, because I was NOT SAVED, that I KNEW IF I FINISHED PULLING THE TRIGGER I WAS WALKING INTO HELL, FOR SURE. I shook so hard that I dropped the pistol on the bed. No, I was not afraid of Dying, I just did not want to see another DAY.

Two days after that, I tried a second Time. This time I called my wife, because I wanted her to hear the fatal shot when I did it. And again the Lord intervened, and that SAME OVERWHELMING TERROR over came me. A TERROR WAY BEYOND WHAT A MAN WITH A KNIFE TO THROAT, COULD EVER PUT IN ME JUST BEFORE HE SLIT MY THROAT. I LITERALLY KNEW I WAS IN THE DOORWAY TO HADES/HELL AND WILLINGLY WALK INTO IT. This time as I shook the Pistol fell from my hand and hit the floor. I still do not know what it did not go off.

The Next NIGHT, I tried a third time. I saw them pouring a very thick layer of Gravel on a dirt road near me, that after noon. I went to a bar that night, and got as drunk as I could, and made a full proof plan {God had other plans for my life}, and drove home on my dirt bike, and dropped my helmet off. I then when out to than dirt road with lose gravel on it, KNOWING THE MOST DANGEROUS SURFACE YOU CAN RIDE A BIKE ON WAS LOOSE GRAVEL. I am MORE ashamed of what I did next, because I KNEW IT SAID IN THE BIBLE, "THOU SHALT NOT TEMPT THE LORD YOUR GOD." As I approached that Mile of Lose Gravel, I looked up to the sky and TAUNTED GOD, "If You want me, you can take me any where you want to on this mile!" And I leaned out over the handle bars with NO HELMET, so that way I was sure to hit head first when I lost control.

With the throttle wide open, and leaning over the handle bars for the whole mile, that bike DID NOT EVEN WOBBLE. It was as if I was riding on pavement. That was about 01:30 AM. I backed the throttle off, went home and sat up thinking about what had happened, sobering up, and then as I was about to go to bed at approximately at 05:00 AM, something happened that dropped me to my knees. As I walking into the Bedroom, I REALIZED, that GOD HAD INTERVENED YET AGAIN. I KNEW HE HAD TO HAVE REACHED DOWN AND HELD THAT BIKE STEADY, as if to say, "KNOW YOU DON'T, I HAVE A PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE."

As I fell to my knees, WAVE, AFTER WAVE of guilt over my WHOLE LIFESTYLE washed over me. I was WEEPING and Bawling like a baby, as I CRIED OUT TO HIM, "Forgive Me, Forgive Me! Lord if you have a purpose for my life, you have to come into my life and live it, because I CAN'T LIVE LIKE THAT. I am making a Total Mess of my Life." I continue to weep and asking HIM FOR FORGIVENESS for about another hour. Sometime I found that I was Prostrate face down on the floor.

What happened next, I usually leave out when telling my Testimony, because I fear most would want to make fun of it. But some how, I think this will be important to someone. Either I fell asleep for a little while and had the most VIVID Dream I ever had, or HE gave me a vision. I found myself kneeling at the Foot of the Cross, my Crying uncontrollably, crying, "Forgive Me, Forgive Me!" EVERY SIN I EVER COMMITTED WAS LIKE ANOTHER ONE POUND WEIGHT, pulling all the more on HIS nails. And there were so MANY. As I noticed the NAILS, they were in HIS wrists. NO ONE EVER TOLD ME THAT THE JEWS CONSIDER THE WRISTS TO BE PART OF THE HANDS. I never knew that before. AND then I SAW THE BLOOD DRIP, AND FALL, AND I COULD FEEL THE BLOOD WAS WARM AS IT FELL ON MY OUTSTRETCHED FOREARMS. I knew that meant I was FORGIVEN!

Whether it was a Dream, or Vision, I do not know, that was where it ended. AND KNOW NO ONE HAD EVER TAUGHT ME ABOUT BEING BORN AGAIN, OR ETERNALLY ALIVE IN MY SPIRIT IN THE CHURCH WERE I GREW UP IN, and eventually left. BUT I KNEW HE AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WERE IN ME. I KNEW HE HAD A PLAN FOR MY LIFE, and I TRUSTED HIM TOTALLY. I have seen so many minor miracles in my life, and some Big Ones, there IS NO MORE TURNING BACK, NOT A SINGLE TIME OF DOUBT IN HIM, AND HIS CONTROL OVER MY LIFE HAS BEEN AWESOME. YES I AM ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENT THAT HIS SPIRIT BROUGHT MY HUMAN SPIRIT TO BE ETERNALLY ALIVE.

Disclosure: I am a pre-TRIB rapture advocate and believer.

Suggestion: Carefully consider the possibility that the audience whom Jesus is addressing (in this warning yet future) are in fact his brothers the Israelites, and not the Church.

IMO The church is being addressed in verses 4 through 14 (the gospel is being preached and then the "end will come"). This would be the fullness of the gentiles coming in (Rom 11:25).


The topic then changes (from preaching to the tribulation), as does the audience, in verses 15 thru 31. Jesus is now warning his brothers the Israelites of the certainty of the tribulation, the specific case of the "man of sin" and the AoD (occurring in the temple in Jerusalem), and a warning to flee.

Also consider Luke 21 and how it proves to be different than Matt 24 and Mark 13.....see below.

. . .
Man I love our God!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for sharing brother. Man I love Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They can be redeemed right now, I know a BUNCH who are. We are not waiting for a fleshly kingdom, and this separation idea as if redemption hasn't already been offered in totality, not only that, and the part we disagree on here, is the FACT the historical and prophesied FACT that He also brought judgement on the covenant breakers,
Your mistake, from my point of view, is that you take this verse out of it's context, match it with another verse out of context, the declare that it is written strait to you for this time. Again I can't stress enough that every word is for us, today right now, but He was not speaking to us, He was speaking to them. but I have to be brutally honest here, all the scripture you posted, the way you put it all together was well put together and thought out, no doubt, and easy to follow, but your whole approach is incorrect, at least in my view for whatever it's worth, but it's like you bare just pulling verses that match the narrative you bring to the text out of it's context. /In

Man I love our God!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for sharing brother. Man I love Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are literally acre-feet of Scriptures that state unequivocally that the nation Israel will be regathered into the land promised to Abraham post Second Coming. Seriously I really don't understand why all the debate.

What was the whole purpose of Israel? What did God choose these people to do? They are Gods "chosen", no doubt, but what where they "chosen" to do?

What was the whole purpose of Israel? What did God choose these people to do? They are Gods "chosen", no doubt, but what where they "chosen" to do?

No, he is indeed speaking to ALL OF US, especially now in the end times. I am 71, and it seems like I am getting older by the minute. There is a lot of things you will GROW SPIRITUALLY to understand. But I am confident in time YOU WILL. I will give you something to meditate on. IT IS CALLED THE LIVING WORD FOR A REASON. IT IS LIVING AND PERTINENT TO ALL OF US.


Brother it may help you to understand to read a bit more of my testimony. It is on the thread "Not By Works" and it Post: #35,421 .
Enjoy, and Trust HE will Grow You.

When you said . Sounds like something Muhammad or one of his contributors probably said .

Just exactly what is it that you think was I was trying to say? Did you agree or have another idea?

God is not a man.

I will read that and comment. All this is written before I read it though.

Not in the way you present. Sorry you're just wrong. When those words were spoken they were not addressed directly to you. You weren't there. See my point. You cannot read the bible this way, and this is the root of all your mistakes with this view, imo, because you think that He's speaking to you directly. You HAVE to keep it IN context. Thinking Jesus looking His disciples in the eyes and saying "in this generation ALL this will happen", is Him speaking to YOU right now is faulty and leads to having to make Jesus a liar to fit YOUR narrative. I don't understand why this is so hard to see. It's right there. How you're reading scripture is the kind of thing that can make lunatic go off, thinking God is telling them directly to go kill every man woman and child, then take the land.

I think you're obviously not understanding what I mean when I say that every word is FOR us, but Jesus recorded words were not directed at you when He spoke them. Unless you're 2,000 years old and were there. This is not meant to be offensive, but you're arrogance is showing a tiny bit, speaking to me like "If you keep studying hard you'll eventually understand it my way", when off the bat I see a problem with your interpretation method.

Besides that you act as if your view isn't the DOMINANT view taught everywhere. I believed like you before because that's what every pastor I ever talked to about it taught, but once God open my eyes to see that you have to murder scripture to make your view fit (and I hate the way that sounds, as if you don't truly have your eyes open unless you see it like me, but understand my personal experience assures me that a saved man can see it either way, we are on all on a walk, we will grow in Him, see things differently, and if I'm going to claim to follow Him then I have to proclaim what I believe is truth. As do every one of His children. Right?), this view I'm speaking of has made all of scripture mesh in a way that fits so well in every way I've looked at it so far that it has lit a fire in me to proclaim our King to all nations like NEVER before. I also testify this message, this Gospel brings with it power, the way He promised it would, I take action now, but all by His power, and ALL for His glory, Man I love Jesus our God.

This is just something the, "waiting for the world to go to hell in a hand basket" narrative NEVER did in my life personally. Just in my opinion, the thought of waiting for the world to get so bad that Jesus comes back yanking us out of our underwear to go with Him in heaven to, watch the world rip it'self apart for a while until He comes back to bring an earthly kingdom you can point to and say "there is the kingdom". Exactly like Jesus Himself said His kingdom was NOT like, is just not what the bible says without it being imposed on it. Man everything about what you're selling, none of it fits in any way no matter how many verses you rip out of context to fit your view. The pre trib case you're making here is like a magazine cut out ransom letter man. And so many are so far gone, so convinced because every teacher you respect has taught it to you, honestly believing it too BTW, that even hearing a different view causes anger, lashing out, and shutting down. I'm not talking about you at all. We're having an awesome conversation from my point of view, thank you.

I can't lie though, I do feel you already have your mind made up before you come to the issue, and no matter what you wouldn't even consider you all might not be in truth on this matter. Just to be clear I understand the same applies to me too, I could be wrong and even when I am reading and considering your case and explanations, when I ask some really digging questions, and bring up things that are really a problem, the deepest thought I get is "maybe it's so spiritual you just can't understand"?

What was the whole purpose of Israel? What did God choose these people to do? They are Gods "chosen", no doubt, but what where they "chosen" to do?

Prophets are speaking to future events and "future people" all the time Sir. Jesus is no exception.

This is about what God is going to do for the sake of Israel despite their failures error and disobedience. That being keep His promises and be to them a husband and Redeemer.

Exodus 19:5-6
Now if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, you will be My treasured possession out of all the nations—for the whole earth is Mine. 6 And unto Me you shall be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to speak to the Israelites.”

Jeremiah 16:19
O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

They were chosen to teach the nations the truth about the Almighty. His word can not return to Him void but must accomplish what He was set out to do (Isaiah 55:11).

Well that said nothing really, so what was your answer? Was Israel's purpose not to bring forth the Messiah that would redeem the world? Did Jesus not fulfill this? Through Israel comes salvation from, our Mighty God. Did redemption not come? Just halfway? I'm not saved halfway. I'm fully in His kingdom right now today by His grace and power. Nothing needs to be done to save me. Are the Jews and different? Are they not saved through Jesus? Is there another way for them? Does the entire institution pointing to the coming King have to be rebuilt? Why? You say to fulfill His word, I say His words been fulfilled.

LOL you say "They were chosen to teach the nations the truth about the Almighty. His word can not return to Him void but must accomplish what He was set out to do", Okay so now think about how His word went out. Who did it go out through, that's right not the Jews, only Matthew, Mark, John, Paul, Peter, I guess this doesn't count right?

Malachi 3:6 (NIV)
6 "I the LORD do not change.
So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.


If we look at Mal. 3:6, we find that GOD NEVER CHANGES.

So if we can find ONE example How GOD SAVED ONE PERSON, we will know HOW GOD SAVES EVERYONE FROM ADAM ON.

Romans 4:3 (NIV)
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."


ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD:

THEREFORE,

The OLD TESTAMENT FOLD THAT WAS SAVED were those WHO BELIEVE GOD WOULD SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR THEIR SINS.

The NEW TESTAMENT FOLD THAT IS SAVED were those WHO BELIEVE GOD DID SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR OUR SINS.

THAT IS THE SAME FAITH, THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM.


Why did I use the word FOLD there ? ? ?

BECAUSE JESUS NEVER EVER DID USE THE WORD CHURCH, and NEITHER DID THE APOSTLES.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly,
and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

QUOTE:
Greek NASB Number: 1577

Greek Word: ἐκκλησία

Transliterated Word: ekklêsia
Root: from 1537 and 2564;

Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation:--

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. END QOUTE:


They CHANGED the DEFINITION of the WORD ekklêsia That meant ASSEMBLY, and some time during the early 300 A.D. to incorporate CHURCH. Prior to that it OLD ENGLISH translation was: circe


They did is a GREAT DISSERVICE by using the word CHURCH, instead of ASSEMBLY, Because it almost single handily CUT OUT the O.T. ASSEMBLY, causing a lot of the CHURCH to think GOD WAS FINISHED WITH ISRAEL, WHEN HE IS NOT.

HERE IS THE TRUTH:


John 10:14-16 (HCSB)
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,
15 as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Other Sheep is N.T. Fold, This Fold is the Last of the O.T. Fold. Remember the Birthday of the Church is not until after the Ascension at the Day of Pentecost. HE IS ADDRESSING THEM AS CO-EQUALS, and Men choosing to use CHURCH in the BIBLE instead of FOLD or ASSEMBLY the two words HE did use; automatically CUT the O.T. FOLD OUT, and Wrongly making them second class CITIZENS of the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. HE EVEN SAID, they will become ONE FLOCK, at the RAPTURE, I assume. In the Millennial Kingdom, there will be a fourth TEMPLE, with PRINCE DAVID (Resurrected) SITS ON THE THRONE of ISRAEL forever! CHRIST IS KING OF THE WHOLE WORLD.

Now I hope you can wrap your head around this TRUTH. THEY ARE CO-EQUALS in the BODY as Dead in CHRIST, as our loved ones are also Dead in CHRIST, because BOTH HAVE THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM. I have a lot to show you in SCRIPTURE to verify that statement.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (HCSB)
13 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who have no hope.
14 Since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, in the same way God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
15 For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord’s coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. {That HAS to include the O.T. Fold HE was talking to in John 10:14-16.}
17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (HCSB)
3 For I passed on to you as most important what I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, {O.T. Fold also believed GOD would send a Messiah to pay for their sins.}

1 Corinthians 15:20-23 (YLT)
20 And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead--the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,
21 for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again of the dead,
22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
{O.T. Fold, starting with Adam, will be first out of the GRAVE, in my opinion, is what it means by Proper Order.}


Isaiah 54:5-6 (HCSB)
5 Indeed, your husband is your Maker— His name is Yahweh of Hosts— and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; He is called the God of all the earth.
6 For the LORD has called you, like a wife deserted and wounded in spirit, a wife of one’s youth when she is rejected,” says your God.

Isaiah 62:5 (HCSB)
5 For as a young man marries a young woman, so your sons will marry you; and as a groom rejoices over ⌊his⌋ bride, so your God will rejoice over you.
{Israel's dead in Messiah (Christ) are Co-equal part of the BRIDE OF CHRIST!}


Ezekiel 34:24-26 (NRSV)
24 And I, the LORD, will be their God, and my servant David shall be prince among them; I, the LORD, have spoken.
25 I will make with them a covenant of peace and banish wild animals from the land, so that they may live in the wild and sleep in the woods securely.
26 I will make them and the region around my hill a blessing; and I will send down the showers in their season; they shall be showers of blessing.

Ezekiel 37:25-28 (NRSV)
25 They shall live in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, in which your ancestors lived; they and their children and their children's children shall live there forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever.
26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will bless them and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary among them forevermore. ⮘FOURTH TEMPLE ⮘
27 My dwelling place shall be with them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. ⮘MORTALS ⮘
28 Then the nations shall know that I the LORD sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary is among them forevermore.⮘FOURTH TEMPLE ⮘

Zechariah 14:9 (NRSV)
9 And the LORD will become king over all the earth; on that day the LORD will be one and his name one.

Well that said nothing really, so what was your answer? Was Israel's purpose not to bring forth the Messiah that would redeem the world? Did Jesus not fulfill this? Through Israel comes salvation from, our Mighty God. Did redemption not come? Just halfway? I'm not saved halfway. I'm fully in His kingdom right now today by His grace and power. Nothing needs to be done to save me. Are the Jews and different? Are they not saved through Jesus? Is there another way for them? Does the entire institution pointing to the coming King have to be rebuilt? Why? You say to fulfill His word, I say His words been fulfilled.

LOL you say "They were chosen to teach the nations the truth about the Almighty. His word can not return to Him void but must accomplish what He was set out to do", Okay so now think about how His word went out. Who did it go out through, that's right not the Jews, only Matthew, Mark, John, Paul, Peter, I guess this doesn't count right?

Well that said nothing really, so what was your answer? Was Israel's purpose not to bring forth the Messiah that would redeem the world? Did Jesus not fulfill this? Through Israel comes salvation from, our Mighty God. Did redemption not come? Just halfway? I'm not saved halfway. I'm fully in His kingdom right now today by His grace and power. Nothing needs to be done to save me. Are the Jews and different? Are they not saved through Jesus? Is there another way for them? Does the entire institution pointing to the coming King have to be rebuilt? Why? You say to fulfill His word, I say His words been fulfilled.

LOL you say "They were chosen to teach the nations the truth about the Almighty. His word can not return to Him void but must accomplish what He was set out to do", Okay so now think about how His word went out. Who did it go out through, that's right not the Jews, only Matthew, Mark, John, Paul, Peter, I guess this doesn't count right?