Can we discuss... MGTOW?

One of the reasons I ask this question is because if Christian men (and women) are going to adhere to a lifestyle of lifelong singleness and celibacy, it seems there should be a movement to start some sort of support network within the churches to help keep proponents of this movement on track.

Obviously, the support groups can't be co-ed because... Well, temptation, and stuff... right?

Like any social movement, this one would open its own unique can of worms. Most singles here say there is little support within churches for singles as it is, let alone for singles who are committed to staying that way for life.

Being in that position, I don't see whats so hard about it.

What do you mean? Yes it is true I wasn't talking about your situation but I was talking about the whole MGBOG movement or whatever they call it.

MGTOW this is an edit

That's great!

But for others, it's a tough-won battle.

Oh boo! I thought this was going to be an aviation discussion because every pilot knows that MGTOW stands for Maximum Gross Take-Off Weight...

Quote for the day: "Nobody will ever win the war of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy."

No support group needed here. I just never have bothered looking for a girl to marry. I ain't aginst 'em or fer 'em, I jist never did bother with 'em.


And about that divorced couple I mentioned earlier, there was no question of whether the ex-husband was the father. The court ruled he had to pay child support because the child was born before the divorce was final.

Men been going their own way since there was men............for some reason though.......womens keep following them......

GO WEST YOUNG MAN!

THESE ARE THE TIMES THAT TRY MEN'S SOULS!

By the bullet point:

- Not personally. However, the subject is of interest to me and I have listened to many of the more popular MGTOW channels online.

- I actually agree with many of them. It depends on the person I am listening to, and as some can be more extreme/jaded than others, it wouldn't behoove me to give an interpretation that "fits all" so to speak.

- I'm already practicing a form of it, but didn't know it had a name until a few years ago. The reasons aren't lack of female interest. I do get that still. However if their attitudes even smell of radical feminism, or of entitlement or a number of other things - I don't bother with them.

- When women are given unfair advantage in parental rights, divorce settlements and just about everything else that can bear on a relationship - the reasonable response is exactly what MGTOW endorses - it's the only way that they could possibly wake up to them selves and the toxic mess that is modern feminism. It invites some of the women to go after the feminists on the grossly egregious attitudes and bias that effects the male/female dynamic most sorely.

What I think of extreme feminism? It's absolutely toxic - to both male/female relationships and to society as a whole. Some of the teachings that come out of feminism these days have men paying for children they don't father, have men facing "rape" charges when the women was willing but simply changed her mind later (!!) , encourage the idea that men are always the initiators of violence and always have the upper hand (hint - they don't always, and in most places a man cannot get any kind of government funded help if his woman happens to gain the upper hand.) To too many people in society - male bashing is seen as humorous, and even if she wacks you on the head with a pan if you respond by putting her on the floor with your fist YOU are the bad guy. Equal rights, anyone?

Most feminism seems also to be cowardly and man hating. For example - they don't typically have much to say of Islamic genital mutilation, or the ill treatment of women under Sharia law. Instead, it's all about competing with men in the western world - and if women don't equal men in being CEO's, well then there just has to be something wrong with things. After all, that's unfair on the surface, right?

Further, feminism has, from the start, been nothing about "equality". Women have always been able to work, compete in sports and do other things men do. No - it's more of a "me too" syndrome where the woman in question seems to hate her femininity or the things that make her feminine. Men typically are not attracted to butch women - so the women tries to find satisfaction by getting her dues against males, or if not, then by trying to gain power through materialistic possession...or theft of it through the courts.

That being said - I DO agree with alimony under certain circumstances. Namely these - if a woman has largely been stay at home mother, taking care of domestic type duties while the man earns the lion's share of the money - and this has been the overall lifestyle for many years as a married couple - then yes, she deserves some compensation if they divorce, as this is fair. It is not fair under these circumstances though A) Adultery (hers). B) Some other man is supporting her.

Alimony should also be a two way street. If the women is a career woman who takes home the lion's share of the money and the man does most of the domestic work/raising kids - guess who should get alimony? I don't know what the official stance of modern Feminists is but if they don't agree it's just more evidence that their sense of "fairness" is way whacked.

One further point - for Christians in general. Western society is dying. Literally. More and more people are refusing to reproduce and the birthrate cannot even sustain the current population. Meanwhile - the Muslims take multiple wives and have 6-7 kids by them each. In the future - they will rule, and there are two things you can blame - 1) Feminism. 2) Gay marriage/privileges. When the Muslims come to power - both will end. It's just a simple numbers game, and it will happen if things don't change.

- Last bullet point - no comment as I'm not a gal.

Well ig the people who think that are pretty much right actually, think of Christ relationship to the Church we aren't worthy of anything yet he gives us everything thats the whole point. Now since we are both human women still do stuff although men take the most responsibility (supposed to). I dont get the problem though unless your married to a wife who has no children and just watches TV all day while you do everything it's pretty fair to me women shouldn't be doing all the crap we do they are capable but not meant for it. Having mainly women in my life since i have tons of sisters and grew up with my mom i seriously dont want any of them taking care of me or any other man it's just not right and men need to shut up and stop being lazy do what God called you to do bruh. That's how i see it i could have a wife who purely takes care of the kids while im at work thats fine with me in fact i encourage it, especially with public schools being how they are. Soooooo moral of the story Women: Be productive at whatever you are doing, Men: shut up and do something right for once cuz lets be honest we fail way more then the women it's disgusting fix it man up be like Jesus cx. god bless

I just wanted to point out that you're absolutely right, and this makes sense between male and female, but there is a huge problem right now because we group together people with same sex desires who are trying to overcome. It has a negative impact. That dynamic illustrates what you're saying perfectly

I haven't read every comment so, hopefully, what I say isn't just a big repeat.

I do think men are treated very unfairly. Unfortunately, it has made men who are aware extremely aggressive in the divorce process. Many women have used the court system to "payback" their soon to be ex by taking custody of kids and as much money as possible. It's wrong and I do not condone it in any way.

As a Christian, when that moment happened and my world changed my ex and I agreed to our terms within a week of him announcing he wanted a divorce. He wanted 50% custody. If I have a father who wants to be in his kids lives, then absolutely I will share. The problem is when either side...man or woman start thinking of their well being above all others. My kids were my first priority. My first question being, "What is best for them?" My second was the ex and I on an equal level. The next question was "is this just/fair for both parties?" And both questions always fell under the guideline of, "Is this God's will?" Even though it isn't God's will for my ex to leave, God's will can be found, on my part, in the process. It is extremely important to get unbiased advice from multiple sources if you aren't sure about something. This is how I think we should handle it.

As far as giving assurances that I wouldn't treat a future spouse in a bad manner if the relationship goes south...I think my track record speaks for itself.

Its heartbreaking all of the men that have been mistreated in the name of revenge. The same has been done to women too, which is how I think we got to this place. Justice swung to wide in the opposite direction.

I don't believe in either one of them- feminism or man-ism. "The love of most will grow cold"- you got that right! Love is taken away to only look at who gets what. Divorce is as common as bf and gf break-ups. You take love out of anything you get disaster- especially in relationships (or lack thereof).

high five.
no, no, HIGH TEN!!!!!

I am well acquainted with MGTOW and its kindred ideals. I’ve known my share of men who have similar opinions and have spoken at length with them on this and related subjects many times.

Do you know any MGTOW men (or women who are pro-men's rights)? Have they discussed their views?

I know both and we’ve discussed their views.

How do you interpret their views?

I was reared in an environment where men were highly esteemed and head of the household. Biblical submission and leadership were the norm as was mutual respect for each. Although I haven’t walked in their shoes, I benefit from the gains feminism wrought and the ability to have tradition in its former guise.

I don’t support their solution but I understand what led them there.

Even if you would not choose their practice, do you “get” where they are coming from?

I think it’s clear the current climate has gone too far. Vilifying the opposite sex and belittling boys crosses the line. We’ve moved from the issue to making men the enemy who must be destroyed. I think it’s difficult to undergo harsh treatment and emerge unscathed. I don’t think I’d adopt their stance. But I would definitely be discriminating in mate selection and my children’s upbringing.

What is a reasonable Christian response to MGTOW? To extreme feminism?

Love and an ability to listen without judgment. You must be willing to hear their story. And grace must season our words. Not debates or arguments.

For the gals especially, how do (might) you assure your man that you wouldn't treat him “that” way if things were to go badly in your relationship?

There are no feminists in my family. We’re not threatened by a man’s strength or competency. We want to help them reach their zenith not tear them down. I don’t have to convince them. It’s evident in my bearing and disposition. It’s all I know.

Yes, I have known some. Basically they are incorrigible. Not worth trying to convince, better to let God change them. I can kind of understand their plight and their frustration with divorce court and child custody, but what I don't understand is the lack of aggression to go out there and find somebody different and to work on improving themselves. Men aren't supposed to be quitters.
NAWALTs do exist, I married one but I wouldn't have been able to complaing about women and not wanting to become a good husband.

MGTOW men aren't taking a vow of celibacy, they're going to get their sex. Celibacy is not normal, it requires a gift for that.
There are some that consider themsleves Christian MGTOWs, which is wrong because they need to go God's way, not their own.
Options for MGTOWs are fornication, prostitution, masturbation, lust, adultery or just suffering. Pick your poison.
I was single until 53 so I have much experience with how the church typically views singles, I just like to push back on certain things. The fact is the church has no idea what to do about runaway singleness. I think they rather avoid it.
If you told your church you had the gift of singleness they would think you don't need any kind of support because you don't burn.
If you told your church you needed a spouse they would tell you to get married.
If you told your church you're suffering, you might get avoided but hopefully someone would take you under their wing to support you.

Hi, I'm sorry for resurrecting a 4 year old thread, but this topic is becoming more prevalent these days and my search led me back to CC. I haven't been at CC in many years so hopefully I'm not breaking any "new" rules.

seoulsearch (or anyone else reading), I was just wondering if you've encountered a reasonable response to your specific point? I myself am redpilled with a bit of black thrown in. But this one item has been quite the thorn in my side. Humans are not meant to be single like this with no sexual release. Marriage (and sex) on earth is supposed to be a glimpse of our future intimacy with Christ. But unfortunately, I know there are lots of people who go through ugly divorces with the man being thoroughly destroyed by the courts both financially and emotionally. I've read plenty of accounts of this happening to others. And I know there are plenty of men out there who are stuck in miserable marriages. The worst part about this is that the church is not really all that different from the world so I can't hide there either.

The only reason MGTOW, redpill, blackpill, etc. works is because it is a philosophy followed mostly by non-Christians. And non-Christians have no qualms with sleeping around. They have a sexual release. And usually the Christians who do follow this philosophy have also been burned with a previous marriage and know they are not "missing out." In fact, most redpillers are probably people who've been divorced or went through a really bad breakup. But I'm stuck. I cannot be unequally yoked, but also cannot find a wife because of low SMV. But I also do not have a way to release pent-up sexual tension because God hasn't taken my burning passions. In addition, the Western church generally shys away from sex topics. So there is actually very little or just really bad resources on how to deal with something like this. And having done what I can, I have kept my virginity. However, not knowing what things are like on the other side (yet constantly being assaulted by a culture of sex), makes things a little more challenging. I haven't been a Christian for very long. Prior to becoming one, I had ways to deal with this. But I've obviously had to root those sinful coping mechanisms out of my life. Was hoping you might have heard of others going through the same thing and maybe their solutions?