Not By Works

It's not hard to find unbelievers mixed in with believers. Just look at the parable of the wheat and the tares. Giving an exhortation to hold fast does not mean believers will not hold fast. Who is it that fails to hold fast and why?

1 John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

1 John 4:15 - Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

*Among the 12 disciples, the only one who failed to abide was Judas Iscariot and it was not because he was saved and lost his salvation, but because he was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus. (John 6:64-70; 13:10-11)

The exhortation and promise here no way negates that genuine believers will abide in Him. To abide in Christ is to remain in Him, which is not a temporary, superficial attachment, but a permanent connection. Such authentic abiding in Jesus characterizes those who “continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel" (Colossians 1:23) because they are truly regenerate, new creatures in Christ who possess eternal life (John 5:24) and are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise until the redemption of the purchased possession. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

That is biased and INCONCLUSIVE. A biased mind might also read about the apostle Peter denying Jesus 3 times and it was even mentioned that he (along with the remaining disciples) "fell away" when Jesus was arrested and conclude that Peter, along with the remaining disciples did not continue in Christ, but we know that is not the case. You need to stop jumping to conclusions for the sake of your biased doctrine.

You mean 1 John 2:19 does not mean what is plainly means. 1 John 2:19 makes it inescapably clear that those who WENT OUT FROM US WERE NOT OF US and IF they HAD BEEN OF US then they WOULD HAVE continued with us.

For the umpteenth time, the present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. The Amplified Bible reads - I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view [contrary to mine on the matter]; but the one who is disturbing you, whoever he is, will have to bear the penalty.

Paul has confidence in these Galatians, but you have no confidence. So once again your broken record argument about the Galatians losing their salvation is INCONCLUSIVE, but you continue to beat your drum regardless, because you have your biased agenda.

Nope. Rapture, trib, 1,000 reign is the second coming, destruction of earth and heaven, GWTJ, new heaven and earth

During the tribulation, miracles and signs are back into play helping Israel understand the return of their King. The sick shall be healed as a sign.

Nope. The faith of Christ was not available until after the resurrection.

Self faith comes in with th the versions. They have the phrase “faith in Christ” instead “faith of Christ.” Whose faith justifies? Man’s or Christ’s? It is Christ who justifies.

1 Peter 1:9 (KJV) - Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Should we change that to "Christ's faith?"

Certainly true. But whatever events had to happen in order for the law to change have happened. We know that by the simple fact that the law did indeed change. And it changed because there's a new High Priest in town. Which is probably what he was alluding to: The law won't/can't change until He dies, is resurrected, and assumes His role as High Priest, necessitating a change in law, just as Hebrews points out.

Here's the literal translation:

18he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. - John 3:18 YLT

There is a change in tense in this verse. "Hath" and "believed" in "hath not believed' are in the Perfect tense. The person who Jesus says 'hath not believed" does not have the completed action of believing with continuing results. That's the definition of the Perfect tense. He did not use it in the aorist tense which would mean that person simply had no completed action of believing as you are trying to insist he said.

I did, lol.

Okay, good.
This shows they were being honest.
They didn't change the indicative mood to subjunctive.
Just as they didn't change the subjunctive to indicative in vs. 16.
They left it as it is actually written.
(Honestly, I'm surprised.)

What happened is there is no two 'maybe' verb phrases in that verse as there are in vs. 16.
So we see they were honest in their interpretation of vs. 18 just as they were in vs. 16.
I'm no fan of the Catholics, trust me on that, but they got it right in both verses. Honest.

Just explained it in this post: https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4161307

If you don't agree with that explanation then please tell us how you resolve the (apparent) contradiction between vs. 16 and 18, without changing the subjunctive mood in vs. 16 to match the indicative mood in vs. 18.

Have you ever had a previous christianchat user name or account? If so how was it spelled?

Keep dancing.


John 3:18

Is not judged (ou krinetai). Present passive indicative. Trust in Christ prevents condemnation, for he takes our place and pays the penalty for sin for all who put their case in his hands (Romans 8:32 f.). The believer in Christ as Saviour does not come into judgment (John 5:24).

Hath been judged already (hdh kekritai). Perfect passive indicative of krinw. Judgment has already been passed on the one who refuses to believe in Christ as the Saviour sent by the Father, the man who is not willing to come to Christ for life (John 5:40).

Because he hath not believed (oti mh pepisteuken). Perfect active indicative of pisteuw, has taken a permanent attitude of refusal. Here oti mh states the reason subjectively as the judgment of the Judge in any such case (o mh pisteuwn already mentioned) while in I John 5:10 oti ou pepisteuken gives the reason objectively (ou instead of mh) conceived as an actual case and no longer hypothetical. See John 1:12 for eiv to onoma with pisteuw (believing on the name) and John 1:14 for monogenouv (only begotten) and also John 3:16.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/26139/eVerseID/26139/RTD/rwpnt

Okay, so the Jews being spoken to in James also have the faith of Christ and not their own faith as you say the OT Jews had, right?

That's not what the Perfect tense implies.
He's obviously adding that interpretation.

But on the other hand, his added interpretation is consistent with the fact that the person who stops believing in Christ ultimately can not come back to Christ when God hardens them in that unbelief.

Tenacious you are!

I can tell you ... it is spelled R-A-L-P-H

So they got it right, yet ONLY the NAB (Catholic Bible) translated John 3:16 with "2 mights," but you see no red flag?

I already explained why and it comes down to our disagreement over what the condition is in regards to the subjunctive mood. I believe the condition is believe or not believe, but you believe the condition is believe or stop believing. It falls back on osas vs. nosas.

Have they confessed yet or still avoiding truth? (as they do in scripture as well)

AT Robertson is a well respected Greek scholar. Why should I listen to you over him?

PenelopePewHopper