Not By Works

That's dishonest.

So when you read James chapter 2, in the light of how you concluded that “James was wrong” in acts 21, how do you regards James 2?

Funny you should ask.
I was going to comment about that and say his letter does not contain the conflict the Jerusalem elders had with Paul. So I'm good with the book of James.
I mean now that I know 'justified' has (at least) two distinct definitions.
I learned that in an on-line forum a few years ago.
Put an end to all the twisting and straining to get Paul and James to not be in what seemed to be a contradiction with each other about justification.

I mean now that I know 'justified' has (at least) two distinct definitions. I learned that in an on-line forum a few years ago. Put an end to all the twisting and straining to get Paul and James to not be in what seemed to be a contradiction with each other about justification.

How do you read:

James 2:8 (NCV)
8 This royal law is found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.“ If you obey this law, you are doing right.

That is with the AGAPE LOVE that HE poured into our Heart, Human Spirit, Rom 5:5, therefore Obedience is PART OF THAT LOVE, and NEVER HAS BEEN PART OF SALVATION.

How do you read:

James 2:9-10 (NCV)
9 But if you treat one person as being more important than another, you are sinning. You are guilty of breaking God’s law.
10 A person who follows all of God’s law but fails to obey even one command is guilty of breaking all the commands in that law.

James 2:10 (NIV)
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

James 2:10 (CSBBible)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.


OH MY, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN TO DEPEND ON HIS MERCY AND GRACE 100% OF THE TIME!c
.

Another thing that sickens me is this self maintained salvation that states we MUST maintain our faith....let's look at the facts......

2nd Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. <----This was written to Timothy by Paul. Both are saved, immersed children of GOD. One is an Apostle the other a Pastor teacher......PAUL includes himself within the context by the use of WE......WHY can he say this......? Because he KNOWS the following truths......

A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ."

In the grace we are, having been SAVED out of FAITH, and that NOT of ourselves, IT IS THE GIFT of GOD and NOT of works LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. <---GIFTS is PLURAL and applies to ANY and ALL gifts given by GOD, even the CALL of GOD is irrevocable.

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified


PAUL fully understood that FAITH was a gift, dealt in measure by GOD unto MAN. He fully understood that it is the faith of CHRIST that saves us, justifies us and JESUS was the AUTHOR and FINISHER of said faith IN ALL that genuinely BELIEVE.

PAUL KNEW that EVEN IF we become FAITHLESS after INITIAL FAITH that JESUS being TRUE to his word and the GIFT of FAITH being IRREVOCABLE that JESUS would INDEED FINISH what he started IN US......

Make NO MISTAKE........the salvation losers deny the above truths. They place MAINTAINING faith and salvation squarely on the shoulders of MEN and IN so doing equate JESUS and PAUL to liars. They make JESUS into an INEPT liar that cannot keep his word and or FINISH what he started in a man.....

It is sickening, it is false and it for sure OPPOSES the GOD of HEAVEN and HIS SON JESUS!

Amen, well except your comment on what James was referring to as the Royal Law. That is disclosed in verse 8. If that is the NCV translation that you posted they really hacked it up. The verse reads from the Greek pretty much as the KJV puts forth.


If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
(Jas 2:8 KJV)

The royal Law is the Ten Commandments. If we are fulfilling these according to Scripture we shall Love our neighbor as ourselves we are doing well. That is what the grammar and sentence structure state.

But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law (the Royal Law) as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole (Royal) law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the (Royal) law.
(Jas 2:9-11 KJV)

As we continue James speaks of another Law though. The Law of Liberty.

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
(Jas 2:12 KJV)

This Law of Liberty is disclosed in chapter one.

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word (the engrafted word), and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word (the engrafted word), and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face( Begotten face through the word of truth, a first fruit of God's creatures) in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty (the new man, creature begotten by God through the word of truth with the engrafted word), and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work (that God has done to the heart), this man shall be blessed in his deed.
(Jas 1:18-25)

Amen!

I usually do not post with the New Century Version. And when I do, it is because the person I posted to, may not understand a more complicated Version. My personal favorite is the Translation is the HCSB, which is an ACTUAL TRANSLATION, whereas the KJV is only a paraphrase from the 5 or 6 older English translations.

Has anyone gone through the entire thread of 6316 pages?

I just hope that you have considered these truths below as essential parts of the truth.

We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
1 John 2:3‭-‬6 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/1jn.2.3-6.NIV
. . .

I like how the HCSB translates John 3:36 - The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him. I often hear those who promote salvation by faith PLUS WORKS cite the NASB, which reads - He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. They then write a blank check with the word "obey" and proceed to fill in whatever amount of works they feel are necessary to be saved, yet to "obey" the Son here is to "choose to believe in the Son."

You seem to think your obedience produces LOVE for GOD? You have that, if you meant it that way, 180 degrees backwards.
Genuine Agape LOVE, WILL PRODUCE AS DESIRE STRIVE TO OBEY HIM.

Oh they are not paid by church people.

I think Romans 7 explains very well how it is that all believers, Jew and gentile, are dead to the law. It no longer has power over us to keep us in bondage to sin. That's one thing. There are at least three other things that not being under the law anymore means. But, certainly, it's the same for Jew and gentile alike.

What? You mean James 2:24 doesn't mean what it says? Sound familiar?

The book of James was written before the events in Acts 21, so obviously it won't contain that conflict. It spells out how James view what the Jews must do.

So if you concluded that James was wrong in Acts 21, he should have realized that even the Jews are "dead to the Law of Moses"

...why would his letter, which was directed to the Jews, and talk about faith without works being dead, and the necessity for law keeping, now be correct to you?

You are correct that "justified" has (at least) two distinct definitions.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." When Paul uses the term "justified," he is referring to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the believer as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

In Romans 7, Paul is addressing the Jews... we need to understand that.