Does I Corinthians 13 teach certain gifts ceased with the closing of the canon?

1 Corinthians 13 .. whatever is in part is completed by whatever is perfect.

Gifts of prophecy and tongues, knowledge, were in part..

Whatever is perfect.. completes these gifts.

These gifts were used to spread Gods revelation.

The canon is complete revelation. The gifts then put away, cease with the whole, complete scripture.

Faith, hope and love remain as gifts. None of these are whole without being gifts from God.

Jesus' second coming isn't the subject of the 1 Corinthians 13 passage but the progressive revelation of Gods Word is.

Scripture was in part and became whole. It also leads Christians to maturity to put away reliance on childish things by reliance on the completed revelation of scripture.

As long as this age exists, as long as sin exists, we are not yet delivered from this age to the Kingdom to come.

Yes the Kingdom is here in part but not fully and so we do continue as if in this age, fore WE ARE in this age until the perfection work is completed in each of us and all, on the Day of the Lord...

Please, this cannot be twisted by doctrines of man.

By oldhermit
The Inferiority of Spiritual Gifts to Superior Virtues, 8-13

“Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

A. Spiritual gifts were limited in:
1. Scope
2. Purpose and function
3. Time

a. With regard to the gift of prophesy it would “be done away” – The word is καταργηθήσονται from καταργέω – a passive verb meaning literally to be rendered inactive, to be made of no effect, to bring to naught, to discharge, sever, or to separate from. As the Young's literal translation renders it, “it shall become useless.” Once all prophesy was revealed the gift itself was simply no longer needed. The gift of prophesy would have fulfilled it purpose. Having fulfilled its function, the gift of prophesy (not prophesy itself) would become useless and thus be removed.

b. The gift of tongues would cease – παύσονται – middle voice, meaning to cease, stop, or leave off. The middle voice suggests that this gift, unlike the others would cease on its own. It would simply go away.

c. Revealed knowledge would fail – καταργηθήσεται – passive, same as with the gift of prophesy, it would be rendered inactive, be made of no effect, be brought to nothing. It will be actively taken away. Once all revealed knowledge had been imparted to man, the gift itself was simply no longer needed. It had fulfilled it purpose. Having fulfilled its function, the gift of knowledge (not the knowledge itself) would become useless and thus be removed.

While Paul only mentions three spiritual gifts here, this is representative of all spiritual gifts. The passing of these things would be a natural course of events as their function was fulfilled in time.

B. That which is “in part” – revealed knowledge and prophesy.

“Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly but then face to face (Without an obstructed view); now (a then present condition) I know in part, but then (a change of status which would mark the completion of what was in part) I will know fully (What he would then know fully would be the fullness of what was once revealed only in part.) just as (καθὼς – relates to manner, not to degree.) I also have been fully known (I will know fully in the same way I have been known fully.) But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

C. Comprehension of truth must be expanded and this would accompany the full body of revelation.
“Now we see in a mirror dimly (literally, in a riddle. The word is αἰνίγματι from which we get our word enigma, meaning a mystery. We cannot quite see what is there). At the time of Paul, partial knowledge and prophesy were still a reality. Paul and the other apostles and prophets still only knew in part and prophesied in part. They could not yet see the whole picture. This stresses the deliberate limitations of revealed knowledge and prophesy. Just as with the giving of the OT scriptures, the full revelation had not been delivered to any one man. Some was given to Paul, some to John, some to Luke, some to Mark, some to Peter, and so on. Once they had delivered to the Church everything they had received from the Holy Spirit, the need for such gifts would be no more; Consequently, the gifts would simply fade away. The New Testament writers recorded all revealed truth. Enough truth was given to...

1. Produce faith, John 20:30-31, “Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.'

2. Reveal the mysteries of God, Colossians 1:25-27, “Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”

3. Instruct us in righteousness and to make us mature, complete, and fully equipped for the work of God, 2Timothy 3:16-17, “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.” The end result of the full revelation is a finished product.

4. To serve as our only guide in all spiritual matters,

a. “Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.” 1Corinthians 4:6

b. “Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.” 2Timothy 1:13

5. To bring us to salvation, “Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.” 1Corinthians 15:1-2

D. “But when that which is perfect is come....” So, what is the perfect/complete of which Paul speaks?

1. Τέλειον can refer to something that is flawless in perfection but this is not the intent here.

2. As τέλειον relates to a person it identifies one who is full grown, mature, one who is of full age. This is especially true of the development of Christian character. This seems to be part of what Paul is illustrating here by drawing a comparison between himself as a child that exhibited childish speech, thinking, and reasoning and the Church which was at that time, still a child in its thinking, speaking, and reasoning. The presence of the gifts was a sign of an immature Church. The removal of these gifts would be evidence of a matured body. Since the purpose of spiritual gifts was to mature the body of Christ, the illustration of speaking, thinking, and reasoning, as a child was quite apropos. Once mature, these characteristics of immaturity would be set aside. There comes a time when, as characteristics of immaturity begin to fade away as a child grows into adulthood, we begin to embrace more mature traits. Such was the nature of these gifts to the early Church. The mark of a mature Church was the greater development of the more desired gifts of faith, hope, and love.

3. Τέλειον also refers to something that is complete in all of its parts, something that is lacking in nothing. This has to be contrasted with that which was at that time still “in part” which was knowledge and prophesy. The fact that the gifts were still present was a sign that knowledge and prophesy had not yet been given in their fullness. When these things became complete, the gifts that accompanied what was in part would no longer be needed. These gifts would have served their intended function and out lived their useful purpose. With the fullness of the revelation of the word of God, that which was in part became complete and those gifts that brought us the full revelation of God were no longer necessary and they simply began to fade away having fulfilled their function.

E. Faith and hope are also limited by reason of their purpose in time. These virtues are confined to time. Even faith and hope take a back seat to love in this regard.

1. Hope will eventually give way to realization and we will no longer hope because that for which we once hoped will have been obtained.

2. Faith will one day become sight and we will know longer need to trust in that which we cannot see for all will be realized.

F. Love alone is represented without limitations of any kind, even beyond the scope of this world, “it never fails.” Unlike the gifts, which one received by the will of another, love is a virtue that must be learned, cultivated, developed, and actuated. Unlike the gifts, love is a decision of the will. It is a choice. This is part of the maturing process.

You are making many assumptions from silence. But not exactly silence. In acts 1 there are 120 brethren gathered together and some who had followed Jesus from his baptism. Jesus hand picked 12 there were many other disciples and obviously Ananias was one of them.
As for the elders who laid hands on Timothy, see the same argument for Ananias. Who else would be elders?
They aren't Mormons and have elders that are 17 because they took a one day class.

You are assuming Ananias was one of the disciples following Jesus from before the ascension? He could have been, but there could have been 10,000 disciples in the Jerusalem church converted since that time, many of whom were scattered and many new converts in the areas where they went. Why assume that Ananias was with the 12, and why would that give Ananias special powers? If it were important, doctrinally, for us to know that he was one of the 70 for example (which would be hugely speculative), then wouldn't scripture tell us that?

In Acts 14, Paul and Barnabas appoint elders in the churches in Asia Minor. In Acts 16, they come back through the Lystra and Derbe area again and Timothy joins them. There were already elders in the churches in this area a couple of chapters prior. And we do not know if Timothy recieved this prophecy when he joined Paul and Silas or if it occurred in some other location.

Hold on a minute. First, they quote a translation that is frankly a bit lousy here, for this passage at least. Notice the word 'gifts' where it does not show up in the text. There is no 'gifts of prophecy' there. It's "If there are prophecies" not "If there are gifts of prophecy.' Italicizing the whole verse hides whether this translation italicizes words that are not in the Greek.

When the perfect comes, Paul's speech, knowledge, and understanding will be like a child's in comparison to what these things are like after it comes. We do not have superior understanding of the mystery of Christ than the apostles by having the scriptures. We still need prophecy. We still know in part.

The passage does not say 'gift of tongues.' The interpreter here is assuming that Paul is talking about the gift of tongues ceasing, as opposing to utterances of languages, which do shut themselves off, or just end by themselves whenever they are spoken. No one goes on speaking in a foreign language forever.

The verse does not say gift of knowledge. It says knowledge.

We should look at the whole context. It is clear that we know in part. If that were not the case, believers on forums such as these would not have different understandings of the various topics we discuss. We lack knowledge. We are still learning and growing. We do not yet know as we are known.

So the author of this commentary believes that all spiritual gifts.... have ceased? That's a completely ridiculous line of reasoning. There is no reference to healing or miracles here, and no hint that the apostle Paul was hinting that these gifts would cease. There are many other things referred to as spiritual gifts, such as teaching, leading, and serving. Pastors and teachers are charismata either. Who really believes no one is gifted to teach or preach the word of God?
Paul doesn't say what the author says in those last few sentences.

If Paul, John, Luke, Mark, Peter, etc. all had the understanding of kindergarteners, and they wrote and colored their knowledge into a book, if we read that book, we would not have the understanding of adults. That doesn't make sense, and it puts the reader in a position superior to that of the apostles.

The scripture here is true, but it seems like some cessationists interpret the verse with a kind of intellectual dyslexia. It says 'All scripture is inspire by God and profitable for teaching...' not 'Scripture is all that is inspired by God and profitable...'

Scripture is given that the man of God might be adequately equipped. It does not say scripture is all that is given that the man of God might be fully equipped.

Let's say there was a soldier who was given a rifle, and at the time of his receiving it, his commanding officer said, "This is given that you might be fully equipped to fight.' If all he had received was the rifle-- no bullets, uniform, or helmet, or training in how to use firearms he would not be fully equipped. But since he had these other things, he could be given the rifle that he might be fully equipped.

Timothy was a 'man of God'-- a phrase used as a near equivalent of 'prophet' in the Old Testament. He had grace from God. He'd been baptized. He had faith. He had godly character. He had a spiritual gift imparted through Paul's hands. He had a spiritual gift imparted through prophecy with the laying on of hands of the elders. He had prophecies spoken about him whereby he might wage a good warfare. And he also had the scriptures, so he could be fully equipped.

If you have the scriptures are you fully equipped if you do not have love? If you have not been baptized? If you have no faith? If you have no grace from God to minister? We need not only the scriptures, but the things the scriptures teach that we need. We do need grace, including spiritual gifts. The scriptures do not replace grace or gifts, charis or charismata.

Is the atheist with the Bible on his shelf fully equipped?

We can actually open the scriptures and read about the Spirit guiding us into all truth. So much for that scriptures being the 'only guide.'

Faith... love... the Holy Spirit...not just hte words on the page.





The idea that spiritual gifts are a sign of immaturity is absolutely foreign to anything written in the New Testament, and eisegeting that idea into this passage is out of place. We are to grow up to the full measure of the stature of Christ-- and certain 'charismata' play a role in that in Ephesians 4. We are to grow up to the full measure of the statue of Christ-- a great miracle Worker.

That's some unbiblical thinking. Why should I believe that theory?

Look at 'now' in the passage. 'Now we know in part.' 'And now abideth faith hope and charity.'

We currently live in a time period where we have faith and hope. We currently live in a time period where our knowledge is in part.

"He will yet make known in that fullness of knowledge, whereof the apostle says, But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part shall be done away. For in the same place he adds: Now I know in part, but then shall I know, even as also I am known; and now through a glass in a riddle, but then face to face. For the same apostle also says that we have been saved by the washing of regeneration, Titus 3:5 and yet declares in another place, We are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is no hope; for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Romans 8:24-25 To a similar purpose it is also said by his fellow-apostle Peter, In whom, though now seeing Him not, you believe; and in whom, when you see Him, you shall rejoice with a joy unspeakable and glorious: receiving the reward of faith, even the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:8-9 If, then, it is now the season of faith, and faith's reward is the salvation of our souls; who, in that faith which works by love, Galatians 5:6 can doubt that the day must come to an end, and at its close the reward be received; not only the redemption of our body, whereof the Apostle Paul speaks, Romans 8:23 but also the salvation of our souls, as we are told by the Apostle Peter? For the felicity springing from both is at this present time, and in the existing state of mortality, a matter rather of hope than of actual possession. But this it concerns us to remember, that our outward man, to wit the body, is still decaying; but the inward, that is, the soul, is being renewed day by day. 2 Corinthians 4:16 Accordingly, while we are waiting for the immortality of the flesh and salvation of our souls in the future, yet with the pledge we have received, it may be said that we are saved already; so that knowledge of all things which the Only-begotten has heard of the Father we are to regard as a matter of hope still lying in the future, although declared by Christ as something He had already imparted. "
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1701086.htm

"We show, too, that in the words, "when that which is perfect has come," Paul spoke of the perfection in the enjoyment of eternal life. For in the same place he says: "Now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face." 1 Corinthians 13:12 You cannot reasonably maintain that we see God face to face here. Therefore that which is perfect has not come to you. It is thus clear what the apostle thought on this subject. This perfection will not come to the saints till the accomplishment of what John speaks of: "Now we are the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that when it shall appear we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." 1 John 3:2 Then we shall be led into all truth by the Holy Spirit, of which we have now received the pledge. " http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/140632.htm

a. With regard to the gift of prophesy it would “be done away” – The word is καταργηθήσονται from καταργέω – a passive verb meaning literally to be rendered inactive, to be made of no effect, to bring to naught, to discharge, sever, or to separate from. As the Young's literal translation renders it, “it shall become useless.” Once all prophesy was revealed the gift itself was simply no longer needed. The gift of prophesy would have fulfilled it purpose. Having fulfilled its function, the gift of prophesy (not prophesy itself) would become useless and thus be removed

Its new prophecy that will be done away with . Revelation is still the final chapter. God is no longer moving men to record His will. The gift keeps on giving in respect to the whole.

"For if the prophet Elisha, though at a distance, saw his servant Gehazi, who thought that his wickedness would escape his master's observation and accepted gifts from Naaman the Syrian, whom the prophet had cleansed from his foul leprosy, how much more shall the saints in the spiritual body see all things, not only though their eyes be shut, but though they themselves be at a great distance? For then shall be that which is perfect, of which the apostle says, We know in part, and we prophesy in part; but when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part shall be done away. Then, that he may illustrate as well as possible, by a simile, how superior the future life is to the life now lived, not only by ordinary men, but even by the foremost of the saints, he says, When I was a child, I understood as a child, I spoke as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. Now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 1 Corinthians 13:11-12 If, then, even in this life, in which the prophetic power of remarkable men is no more worthy to be compared to the vision of the future life than childhood is to manhood, Elisha, though distant from his servant, saw him accepting gifts, shall we say that when that which is perfect has come, and the corruptible body no longer oppresses the soul, but is incorruptible and offers no impediment to it, the saints shall need bodily eyes to see, though Elisha had no need of them to see his servant? For, following the Septuagint version, these are the prophet's words: Did not my heart go with you, when the man came out of his chariot to meet you, and you tooked his gifts? 2 Kings 5:26 Or, as the presbyter Jerome rendered it from the Hebrew, Was not my heart present when the man turned from his chariot to meet you? The prophet said that he saw this with his heart, miraculously aided by God, as no one can doubt. But how much more abundantly shall the saints enjoy this gift when God shall be all in all? Nevertheless the bodily eyes also shall have their office and their place, and shall be used by the spirit through the spiritual body. For the prophet did not forego the use of his eyes for seeing what was before them, though he did not need them to see his absent servant, and though he could have seen these present objects in spirit, and with his eyes shut, as he saw things far distant in a place where he himself was not. Far be it, then, from us to say that in the life to come the saints shall not see God when their eyes are shut, since they shall always see Him with the spirit. " http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120122.htm

Ephesians 4:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

"These are the things which the spiritual law of Christ enjoins on us and those who observe that become superior to the law of Moses. For when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part shall be done away 1 Corinthians 13:10: and when the covering of the law, that is, the veil, is rent asunder through the crucifixion of the Saviour, and the Spirit shines forth with tongues of fire, the letter shall be done away with, bodily things shall come to an end, the law of servitude shall be fulfilled, and the law of liberty be bestowed on us. Yea we shall celebrate the perfect rest of human nature, I mean the day after the resurrection, on which the Lord Jesus, the Author of Life and our Saviour, shall lead us into the heritage promised to those who serve God in the spirit, a heritage into which He entered Himself as our forerunner after He rose from the dead, and whereon, the gates of Heaven being opened to Him, He took His seat in bodily form at the right hand of the Father, where those who keep the spiritual law shall also come. " http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/33044.htm

James - 50 A.D.First Thessalonians - 52-53.Second Thessalonians - 52-53.Galatians - 55.First Corinthians - 57.Second Corinthians - 57.Romans - 57-58.Philippians - 62-63.Colossians - 62-63.Philemon - 62-63.Ephesians - 62-63.Luke - 63.Acts - 64.First Timothy - 65.Titus - 65.Second Timothy - 66.Mark - 66.Matthew - 67.Hebrews - 67.First Peter - 67-68.Second Peter - 68.Jude - 68.Apocalypse - 68.John - c. 85.Epistles of John - 90-95. https://www.biblestudytools.com/resources/guide-to-bible-study/order-books-new-testament.html

That's interesting. When I read I Corinthians 13 many years ago, I John 3:2 came to mind before I read a commentary that associated the two passages together. Then, I came across John Calvin's commentary on I Corinthians 13, in which he expresses belief that the perfect comes at either death or the resurrection, and that there are some who hold to the foolish belief that it happens during the intervening time.

I see now that Augustine held to a similar position.

I disagree with the order. In the 1800's, it was believed that the southern border of Galatia was up north in Asia minor, something I have even seen recently in the map in the back of the Holman Christian Standard Bible I purchased at Ollie's.

But scholars now have access to the whole Greek language and huge numbers of Roman manuscripts in one place. The borders of Galatia extended down to the sea in Asia Minor, including 'first missionary journey' churches. And Paul addressed readers by geographic designations. There is no reason to suppose that Paul had to have traveled to a uniquely Celtic community in northern Asian minor without the New Testament mentioning it. Paul took the Jerusalem decision to Galatia in Acts 16. It makes sense that he was taking the decree to those who were already believers in some of the first misssionary journey churches mentioned in Acts 14.

It makes more sense to think that Paul wrote the epistle to the Galatians before going up to Jerusalem for the Jerusalem council-- and that the liberal German theory that Paul and James were theological enemies is false. Galatians was most likely written before the apostles had met to consider the issue of Gentile circumcision, and James was not sending men to create divisions between Jews and Gentiles. Paul not mentioning the Jerusalem decision in Galatians would be odd if it had already been made and the letters sent. The letter would make less sense if he had already delivered the Galatians the letter as referenced in Acts 16.

So I think Galatians was written before I Thessalonians. Paul had not been there (on his Biblically-recorded trip, at least) before the Jerusalem council or delivering the letter to Galatia in Acts 16.

There is more than one perfect as complete. Cannon is one. We are warning beforetime. The perfect law has come. With no laws missing in the book of law, the Bible.

The other the receiving of the goal of our faith our new incorruptible bodies. . neither male not female. . Jew or gentile. .Then the in the new heavens and earth former things like scripture, the letter of the law will not be remembered or ever come to mind. The memory of things here will perish never to be remembered ever again.

As I have told you before, the prophetic utterances mentioned in 1 Corinthians are not "Scripture". Nobody is claiming that they are Scripture. There is evidence within Scripture that not every prophetic utterance became Scripture. Please stop promulgating your errors.

The word is "canon", not "cannon". The latter is a big gun.