Does man have a libertarian free will?

well okay. i concede then. if thats the word i mean to say surrender.

i admit that yes the drawing all men in john 12:31 cant mean every individual or everyone is saved. i have to humble myself to admit it here. sorry

Also look at the “Golden Chain of Redemption” in Romans 8:28-30.

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to becomeconformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

We see a chain here that links together. Those He foreknew He predestined. Those He predestined He called. Those He called, He justified. Those He justified, He glorified. So if He foreknew everybody w/o exception, then they will also be glorified, and that is universalism my friend.

Foreknew doesn’t mean to merely know them, as that is His omniscience. Foreknew is a verb proginosko, which does mean to know beforehand, but contextually speaking here, it means to foreordain those He predestined, called, justified and glorified. Look at Amos 3:2 for instance 2 “You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.”[/i] Some versions use ‘known’ whereas the NASB uses chosen. God hasn’t just known Israel, as Ge has also known the other rebellious nations surrounding Israel at that time. Known means to know intimately. Just as Adam knew Eve in the Garden mean he was intimate with her and she bore him a son Cain. The NASB uses ‘relations’ instead of knew.

Never apologize for this. At least you’re willing to admit this. But never apologize for this. We are not your enemies my friend. We genuinely love and care for you.

All I am asking you to do is investigate my posts and my exegesis of those texts I post. Don’t take my word for it, but go back and read in the Bible for yourself and take it from there.

God humbled me and glorified himself with these truths some 11 years ago.

He is Sovereign. His truth is comforting and solemn. He is in fact God, you know.

Soli Deo Gloria!

no its really embarrasing. maybe mods will delete me save my face lolz. always double check before posting is what i learned. but i just have so many questions. if the drawing isnt all in john 12:31, why does it say all, world, etc? why cant bible use more precise language.

and what about all the exhortations and commands to repent, why do it if God knows they cant unless He does something for them? seems very complicated. maybe i can make a different topic about it, or someone can pm me. (i cant pm too new member)

Now you're on the path to learning, with great questions. God must humble us first.

A tidbit for you: God also commanded the law which no man can do. These things show us our true condition.

"Repent and believe? I can't do that!" Exactly!

true God commanded law. but now that this person knows he cant do it. He needs to cry out to Jesus right? but how can he do it if God has to work his heart first?

If you cry out to Jesus and have that desire, that's called evidence of regeneration and conversion. Feel free to do it.

Natural man wants none of this, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Romans 8:1-8 &c. Only regenerate people do.

Faith and repentance are gifts accompanying regeneration. In that sense, it is passive on the part of the reciplent, but not the giver (God). This is perfectly consistent with Reformed theology.

It didn't arrive by pure persuasion, though, it was implanted by the Holy Spirit. I would not ignore the fact that the gospel message is presented to the believer, but faith is still implanted through regeneration performed by the Holy Spirit.

Now, false believers can have some type of intellectual assent (even the demons have that), but they don't possess true faith. And, they won't endure. We see this in the "disciples" of John 6, who did not endure after being faced by troubling doctrines. As long as it was all about free food, they were all for it, but then they turned away after hearing difficult doctrine (a warning for the Health, Wealth, Prosperity crowd, I think).

I agree on this about the role of the Holy Spirit ......

And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
John 16:8

Yes, and that fundamentally denies a key tenet of free-willer theology: God only asks what can be performed by the person, whether it is faith and repentance, or perfect obedience apart from God.

Well, that's a really ignorant claim because then Jesus and his imputed righteousness would be unnecessary. The person can theoretically "earn" their own salvation by perfect obedience. Too bad no one has EVER done that.

Additionally, no one without union with Christ can even begin to live a God-centered life (and make no mistake..that is what life is...otherwise a person is dwelling in death).

Theoretically, in some sectors of free-willer theology, there are people who never sinned and don't need his atonement.

Salvation itself is all of God but being given the new nature according to Paul the Apostle we have liberty in Christ. If we truly belong to Christ the Holy Spirit convicts us and does not allow us to go on sinning but there is freedom in Christ to do good.

The Holy Spirit removes the veil as in the case of Lydia, the eyes of the heart, he enabled her to understand and she was persuaded by her understanding.

There is a balance. Many verses of scripture are ignored by those who have a preferential bias. Ephesians ch. 1 is quite clear as is Romans chapters 9 and 10. John 6:43-45. I have heard some say that oh that's just Paul's opinion. Israel resisted the Holy Spirit often. They even killed the prophets. Grace is grace, God's undeserved mercy toward us. There are dynamics to this grace. God is the One doing the saving. He is not without power as He will save all He intends to save and will not lose one. Upon reading the parable of the sower it is the Holy Spirit that gets full credit for correctly and thoroughly preparing and tilling the hard soil of the heart creating in the person that good heart that Jesus spoke of. The ones who fell away never truly belong to Christ.

Correct. He regenerated her

Amen. We don't have to sin. Unfortunately, none of us stay close to God all the time, and we often lapse into sinful acts, or even long periods of disobedience called "backsliding" sometimes. It isn't the general trajectory of our life, though, and none of us are at peace with it. If we are stuck in this path, I believe God will discipline us until we leave it.

Many would debate this with you but it won't be me.

Dan58 said:

I did... I chose to believe, therefore it was my will to believe. If I chose not to believe, that would also be my will. "Whomsoever believeth" is a choice, its a decision everyone makes.. If belief is not an act of ones will, then John 3:16 is irrelevant , and no one should be held accountable for accepting or rejecting the gospel... jmo

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Yes your new will that works in a believer giving us ears hearing what the Spirit says to the churches . New ears, new heart, new eyes all things a new. With the living promise of a new body, our living hope .

I would offer its is an act or work of the revealed will of God's living word that we can believe Him not seen, as he works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. .

If we would for instance as in Catholicism accredit the unseen works to Peter making men seen the key that unlocks the gates of hell, Again as the things of men, seen .Then in the end of the matter today, seeing the Son of man, Jesus is longer here. . blasphemy will not be forgiven as it was with Peter when the Son of man was here.

Clearly the work of believing God (the gospel) is the work that worked in Peter's dead flesh. We have the power of the Spirit of Christ in us (earthen bodies of death) but it is not of us..as new creatures. We walk by faith (Christ's) the unseen eternal as it is written

When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.Mathew 16:13-16

The trial . . .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew 16:

Peter was forgiven of his blasphemous words against the Son of man , Jesus. That 33 year old window would seem to be closed today.

The comforter came when the Son of man left.

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

That is a fallacy of anachronism.

garee said:

If we would for instance as in Catholicism accredit the unseen works to Peter making men seen the key that unlocks the gates of hell, Again as the things of men, seen .Then in the end of the matter today, seeing the Son of man, Jesus is longer here. . blasphemy will not be forgiven as it was with Peter when the Son of man was here.

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Why do you keep inserting the beliefs of Catholics, when they are completely irrelevant to the topic?