Does man have a libertarian free will?
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Also look at the “Golden Chain of Redemption” in Romans 8:28-30.
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to becomeconformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
We see a chain here that links together. Those He foreknew He predestined. Those He predestined He called. Those He called, He justified. Those He justified, He glorified. So if He foreknew everybody w/o exception, then they will also be glorified, and that is universalism my friend.
Foreknew doesn’t mean to merely know them, as that is His omniscience. Foreknew is a verb proginosko, which does mean to know beforehand, but contextually speaking here, it means to foreordain those He predestined, called, justified and glorified. Look at Amos 3:2 for instance 2 “You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.”[/i] Some versions use ‘known’ whereas the NASB uses chosen. God hasn’t just known Israel, as Ge has also known the other rebellious nations surrounding Israel at that time. Known means to know intimately. Just as Adam knew Eve in the Garden mean he was intimate with her and she bore him a son Cain. The NASB uses ‘relations’ instead of knew.
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to becomeconformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
We see a chain here that links together. Those He foreknew He predestined. Those He predestined He called. Those He called, He justified. Those He justified, He glorified. So if He foreknew everybody w/o exception, then they will also be glorified, and that is universalism my friend.
Foreknew doesn’t mean to merely know them, as that is His omniscience. Foreknew is a verb proginosko, which does mean to know beforehand, but contextually speaking here, it means to foreordain those He predestined, called, justified and glorified. Look at Amos 3:2 for instance 2 “You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.”[/i] Some versions use ‘known’ whereas the NASB uses chosen. God hasn’t just known Israel, as Ge has also known the other rebellious nations surrounding Israel at that time. Known means to know intimately. Just as Adam knew Eve in the Garden mean he was intimate with her and she bore him a son Cain. The NASB uses ‘relations’ instead of knew.
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Never apologize for this. At least you’re willing to admit this. But never apologize for this. We are not your enemies my friend. We genuinely love and care for you. 
and what about all the exhortations and commands to repent, why do it if God knows they cant unless He does something for them? seems very complicated. maybe i can make a different topic about it, or someone can pm me. (i cant pm too new member)
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Now you're on the path to learning, with great questions. God must humble us first.
A tidbit for you: God also commanded the law which no man can do. These things show us our true condition.
"Repent and believe? I can't do that!" Exactly!
A tidbit for you: God also commanded the law which no man can do. These things show us our true condition.
"Repent and believe? I can't do that!" Exactly!
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You were persuaded, convinced and convicted first.
Belief is always about being persuaded.... that is all I am saying.
Being persuaded is passive, not a decision.
Belief is always about being persuaded.... that is all I am saying.
Being persuaded is passive, not a decision.
It didn't arrive by pure persuasion, though, it was implanted by the Holy Spirit. I would not ignore the fact that the gospel message is presented to the believer, but faith is still implanted through regeneration performed by the Holy Spirit.
Now, false believers can have some type of intellectual assent (even the demons have that), but they don't possess true faith. And, they won't endure. We see this in the "disciples" of John 6, who did not endure after being faced by troubling doctrines. As long as it was all about free food, they were all for it, but then they turned away after hearing difficult doctrine (a warning for the Health, Wealth, Prosperity crowd, I think).
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Now you're on the path to learning, with great questions. God must humble us first.
A tidbit for you: God also commanded the law which no man can do. These things show us our true condition.
"Repent and believe? I can't do that!" Exactly!
A tidbit for you: God also commanded the law which no man can do. These things show us our true condition.
"Repent and believe? I can't do that!" Exactly!
Well, that's a really ignorant claim because then Jesus and his imputed righteousness would be unnecessary. The person can theoretically "earn" their own salvation by perfect obedience. Too bad no one has EVER done that.
Additionally, no one without union with Christ can even begin to live a God-centered life (and make no mistake..that is what life is...otherwise a person is dwelling in death).
Theoretically, in some sectors of free-willer theology, there are people who never sinned and don't need his atonement.
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The Calvinist, RT answer? Those were the non-elect! TULIP is therefore true. How many souls lost to that devilish flowering of false teaching?
How many souls lost to that devilish flowering of false teaching?
Amen. We don't have to sin. Unfortunately, none of us stay close to God all the time, and we often lapse into sinful acts, or even long periods of disobedience called "backsliding" sometimes. It isn't the general trajectory of our life, though, and none of us are at peace with it. If we are stuck in this path, I believe God will discipline us until we leave it.
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U
Dan58 said:
Yes your new will that works in a believer giving us ears hearing what the Spirit says to the churches . New ears, new heart, new eyes all things a new. With the living promise of a new body, our living hope .
I would offer its is an act or work of the revealed will of God's living word that we can believe Him not seen, as he works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. .
If we would for instance as in Catholicism accredit the unseen works to Peter making men seen the key that unlocks the gates of hell, Again as the things of men, seen .Then in the end of the matter today, seeing the Son of man, Jesus is longer here. . blasphemy will not be forgiven as it was with Peter when the Son of man was here.
Clearly the work of believing God (the gospel) is the work that worked in Peter's dead flesh. We have the power of the Spirit of Christ in us (earthen bodies of death) but it is not of us..as new creatures. We walk by faith (Christ's) the unseen eternal as it is written
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.Mathew 16:13-16
The trial . . .
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew 16:
Peter was forgiven of his blasphemous words against the Son of man , Jesus. That 33 year old window would seem to be closed today.
The comforter came when the Son of man left.
Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Yes your new will that works in a believer giving us ears hearing what the Spirit says to the churches . New ears, new heart, new eyes all things a new. With the living promise of a new body, our living hope .
I would offer its is an act or work of the revealed will of God's living word that we can believe Him not seen, as he works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. .
If we would for instance as in Catholicism accredit the unseen works to Peter making men seen the key that unlocks the gates of hell, Again as the things of men, seen .Then in the end of the matter today, seeing the Son of man, Jesus is longer here. . blasphemy will not be forgiven as it was with Peter when the Son of man was here.
Clearly the work of believing God (the gospel) is the work that worked in Peter's dead flesh. We have the power of the Spirit of Christ in us (earthen bodies of death) but it is not of us..as new creatures. We walk by faith (Christ's) the unseen eternal as it is written
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.Mathew 16:13-16
The trial . . .
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew 16:
Peter was forgiven of his blasphemous words against the Son of man , Jesus. That 33 year old window would seem to be closed today.
The comforter came when the Son of man left.
Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
