Not By Works

Of course St. Augustine was a Calvinist .... "God picks those who He knows will persevere" ...... I prefer the promises of God.

Augustine was "converted' after talking to Ambrose about the monastic life and aestheticism... that should pose a problem right there.... become celibate and ye shall be saved!!

And St Augustine can keep his City of God ......boring!

Please do not talk about any Catholics to me, I can feel my temperature rising..... I left that a long time ago and I find not one thing of value added to my life in its dogma.

Seeing the the Vatican this summer and sensing the presence of evil just further cemented my already strong views.

I gave you SEVERAL, some of them were DEFINITELY NON-Catholic. I left Lutheran Church about 1980, because the Teaching of the WORD, was less important to them, than the ritualistic Order of Service. He Told Peter three times to FEED HIS SHEEP, not to perform the ritualistic Order of Service. Sounds like you left the Catholic Church for about the same reason, as I left the Lutheran Church. So denying that there were not any teachers of the Security In Christ in the early Church; is simply NOT THE TRUTH. No need to continue this discussion.

AMEN......the following is absolutely true....

The Bible -->Hope = a confident expectation of something guaranteed

Salvation Losers --> Hope = I bought a lottery ticket and HOPE I win the prize

😲

That may have been almost a knock down, drag out Fight.

Galatians 2:11-21 (HCSB)
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face because he stood condemned.
12 For he regularly ate with the Gentiles before certain men came from James. However, when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, because he feared those from the circumcision party.
13 Then the rest of the Jews joined his hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.
14 But when I saw that they were deviating from the truth of the gospel, I told Cephas in front of everyone, “If you, who are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel Gentiles to live like Jews?”
15 We who are Jews by birth and not “Gentile sinners”
16 know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
17 But if we ourselves are also found to be “sinners” while seeking to be justified by Christ, is Christ then a promoter of sin? Absolutely not!
18 If I rebuild the system I tore down, I show myself to be a lawbreaker.
19 For through the law I have died to the law, so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ
20 and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.

Satan had eternal life once. But he threw it all away WHEN HE QUIT GODS WAY and went about doing it his own way, yes?

So what are you trusting in for salvation? Christ alone or Christ + works? If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer?

I have been given the gift of salvation, just as you. That gift was given to me at the beginning of my walk, I would imagine that was like you also. I just don't believe in OSAS. I understand that YOU BELIEVE that makes me "a worker for salvation" but since I already have been given that gift, no matter how hard I work, it just doesn't change the fact that the gift was given previous to all my works for God.

I know YOU THINK that I must be feeling like I must be "maintaining my salvation" with my works, but I don't, never crosses my mind really. I just believe that God gave souls "freewill" and as such they have the freewill to come to God and the freewill to choose to leave, just like Satan did. I believe there is a real adversary hunting for souls to steal away from God whos deception is so real that if you do not have the full gospel armor to withstand the fiery darts of Satan that you will be deceived and loose that gift, not have it "taken away" I believe the word bears my beliefs out time and again. There were also the fallen angels who "chose" to leave their habitation. Nothing new under the sun.

Judgment comes after death, not before. Follow God, no worries. Quit following God, worry, God will not be mocked. Simple really. There are 2 sides to the gulf. Some will reign with Christ 1000 yrs. Many are called, few are chosen. There is the millennium or Lords Day before the great throne judgment. True I can't see many not "getting it" at the end of that, but I

I realize you can't fathom how my beliefs are such, but they are. How many sins are "too many" you may ask? My answer is only God knows. He is the discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart, not me. It is His eternal kingdom not mine. And no evil shall come into it.

trying to relate satans situation with ours is prety crazy, And he did not have eternal life. He was just alive in christ, eternal life was never offered until AFTER the fall

Satan was never offered eternal life after he fell. huge difference.

That would be in the first earth age before "iniquity" was found in him. Or do you think God killed the souls He created even when they had never sinned?

I want to see the word eternal.

You said he had eternal life, where does it say this?

I know he had life, but no place can I find where God told him he ever had ETERNAL life

Then show me where He said he didn't. I want to se where God told him he didn't

lol. Sorry, You need to show me where it said he had eternal life. Eternal means forever. If Satan had eternal life, it would be forever,

I think we see that by the fact he fell he did not have eternal life,


All angels and Adam and Eve had conditional life. They did not have eternal life.

The fallen angels (including Satan) and Adam and Eve failed to keep Gods conditions, and thus DIED. Only Adam and Eve and their offspring were offered ETERNAL LIFE. no angel was ever offered that GIFT

Dude, if he was the first and remains to only one by name sentenced to death, then before that happened, there was no death. No one has ever died, spiritually wise yet. And lake of fire death only came into play 2000 ys ago. There rest is common sense.

Your right, before that there was no death, That does not mean they had ETERNAL life. Thats the part I think you are not seeing

Satan was the first to die spiritually, And he convinced 1/4 of the angels to follow him to spiritual death

Adam and Eve died, just like God promised they would on the day they disobeyed him. And since that point, all men have been born dead in Adam

Only men have been offered eternal life.

once again, before the fall of any angel or man, they had CONDITIONAL LIFE. (their continued life was dependent on them maintianing conditions to keep that life. if they failed to keep those conditions, they would die, Satan died because he failed to keep those conditions, as did adam and eve,

at the point of the fall of mankind, God was forced to relate to his creation by the means of grace ONLY. (Satan was never offered grace)

It might help if we tried to define eternal life as the Bible defines it. The noun "life" not the adjective "eternal" is the starting point. Is "life" primarily physical life or spiritual life? I think it is primarily spiritual life The Greek word is "zoe" not "bios" (which is physical life).

John 17:3 defines "eternal life" this way: "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

So to answer the question: Did Satan have eternal life? I do not think any text says yes or no to the question. Did Satan "know God and Jesus Christ" as John defines "eternal life" -- He certainly knew God in ways none of us do, but on the other hand he obviously did not know God the way the believer does today.

I think we have to define the difference between eternal life and conditional life

eternal means forever

conditional means not forever

if eternal life can ever stop being life, (if one can still die) it is not eternal. it is conditional, because a conditions is placed on the continuance of that life (whatever that condition may be)

In both Satan and adam and Eve's case. the condition to continue in life was to never sin, God actually made it easy for adam and told him one thing he must follow (one condition) if he wanted to stay alive, failure to follow that condition would result in death.

after that death, we are offered a gift, all we are asked to do is recieve that gift. (which we will never do if we do not have faith in God) at that point, it stops being conditional life, and becomes eternal life.






whether or not we are talking about eternal physical or spiritual life does not negate the fact that eternal means forever.

CHAPTER AND VERSE ON THAT? Satan had eternal life uhh WHAT?

Mamma mia, its time for me to take a break again.

I don't have much time so I am not being exact but will get you all the scripture you need this evening if you like so don't hold me to perfection this is all just off the top of my head
Satan hasn't died, he is being held by Michael in heaven accusing day and night until the war in heaven and he and his angels are cast to earth where he will have but a short time. the hour of temptation. At the beginning of the Lords day he will be bound and put in the pit where people will ask " is this the man that deceived the world" and he will be loosed a short time at the end of the millennium to deceive who he can and at the end of that will be cast into the lake of fire. The angels are also being held and none will die until the end of the millennium when the lake of fire appears at the great throne judgment. God is the God of the living not the dead. No one has died, just left their flesh corruptible bodies and put on their incorruptible bodies. If you do not understand the beginning you can not understand the end. Tell me, when did Satan go bad? Why is God telling Job that as He was creating the earth that all the sons and stars shouted for joy and sang in the morning?