Not By Works

[Melach]

i need to stop visiting the works salvation pushers' threads here. i take it too personally having come out of works salvation. i "run off at the mouth" as big bro says it.

yikes. just had to delete a message was too offtopic and just not christian

 

[UnderGrace]

i need to stop visiting the works salvation pushers' threads here. i take it too personally having come out of works salvation. i "run off at the mouth" as big bro says it.

yikes. just had to delete a message was too offtopic and just not christian

This whole Sabbath keeping thing sure is big on the discussion board these days, along with "law keeping" redefined of course.

Those that hold to a gospel based on Grace through faith apart from works will be few and far between soon.

 

[dcontroversal]

This whole Sabbath keeping thing sure is big on the discussion board these days, along with "law keeping" redefined of course.

Those that hold to a gospel based on Grace through faith apart from works will be few and far between soon.

Amen.....Where I live there are a few families scattered out over about 150 square KM.......I have several that ride 4 wheelers, ATVs etc. in the rain for miles to come to our weekly 1.5 hour straight lesson.....

 

[VCO]

Not one of these men made a statement that salvation was secure and if you read their writings most do not even have the gospel right even though they use all the right words.

I can hear the SECURITY IN CHRIST as taught by our early Church Fathers. So how come you cannot hear it ? ? ?



“Grace with the Lord, when once learned and undertaken by us, should never afterward be cancelled by repetition of sin.” (Tertullian, A.D. 203)

“Therefore, the ones who are pardoned are those who slip into sin unintentionally and incautiously. He who sins willfully has no pardon.” (Lactantius, A.D. 304)

“By believing in Him you will live. But by disbelieving you will be punished.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)

“Let us therefore repent with the whole heart, so that none of us perish by the way.” (Second Clement, A.D. 150)

“Rather they must be preserved. It is not the actual attainment, but the perfecting, that keeps a man for God.” (Cyprian, A.D. 250)

“Day and night ye were anxious for the whole brotherhood, that the number of God’s elect might be saved with mercy and a good conscience.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 2:7, 8)

“Having obtained good proof that thy mind is fixed in God as upon an immovable rock, I loudly glorify [His name] that I have been thought worthy [to behold] thy blameless face which may I ever enjoy in God! I entreat thee, by the grace with which thou art clothed, to press forward in thy course, and to exhort all that they may be saved. Maintain thy position with all care, both in the flesh and spirit.” (The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp, 1:1)

PRAYER: Holy Father, I love You supremely. Savior of my soul, thank You for coming to die for my sins – for redeeming my life. Thank You. Thank You. Thank You. I cling to Thee alone and to the words of Your holy truth. You promised that as I stand upon Your unchanging truth, that I would forever stand in Thee! Thank You! On Christ the solid rock I do stand and all other ground is sinking sand! So be it Jesus!



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Eternal Security - Augustine 354 - 430 AD

1. Augustine teaches eternal security: "If you wish to be a catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that "they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined." There is in such a dogma more power than I can tell assigned to chances in opposition to the power of God, by the occurrence of which casualties that which He has predestinated is not permitted to come to pass." (Augustine, Treatise on the soul and its origin, Book 3, chapter 13)
2. Augustine says there are those predestined to eternal life: "what Christian is not aware that he [the devil] seduces nations even now, and draws them with himself to eternal punishment, but not those predestined to eternal life? And let no one be dismayed by the circumstance that the devil often seduces even those who have been regenerated in Christ, and begun to walk in God's way. For "the Lord knoweth them that are His," and of these the devil seduces none to eternal damnation," (Augustine, The City of God, Book 20, Chapter 7).
3. Augustine says we can't lose our salvation: The seventh [error of Vincentius Victor] is, that "they whom the Lord has predestinated to be baptized may be taken away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined." (Augustine, Treatise on the soul and its origin, Book 3, chapter 22)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is so sad that people think God gives the most precious gift the universe will ever know to people either

1. KNOWING he will have to take it back because the person for some reason does not want it anymore
2. Have to prove how he is really not omniscient, that people can fool him, so he gets tricked into giving his gift to a sinner who will not live up to his standard and continue in sin.

Face it people, if we do not have eternal security, we have no hope, and we are of all people hopeless having faith in a faulty God.

 

[Lightskin]

It is so sad that people think God gives the most precious gift the universe will ever know to people either

1. KNOWING he will have to take it back because the person for some reason does not want it anymore
2. Have to prove how he is really not omniscient, that people can fool him, so he gets tricked into giving his gift to a sinner who will not live up to his standard and continue in sin.

Face it people, if we do not have eternal security, we have no hope, and we are of all people hopeless having faith in a faulty God.

According to some, their perfection makes God perfect. Let that sink in.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

According to some, their perfection makes God perfect. Let that sink in.

Never heard this before, but i have seen so much new stuff since comming in CC so would not suprise me

 

[Lightskin]

Never heard this before, but i have seen so much new stuff since comming in CC so would not suprise me

I’m talking about the people here on CC who proclaim the need to be perfect in order to maintain salvation. What they’re really saying is their “perfection” makes God perfect.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I’m talking about the people here on CC who proclaim the need to be perfect in order to maintain salvation. What they’re really saying is their “perfection” makes God perfect.

I have only seen a few of them, most say you just must not commit certain sins, but do not have to be perfect, just repent after you commit your minor sin

 

[Lightskin]

I have only seen a few of them, most say you just must not commit certain sins, but do not have to be perfect, just repent after you commit your minor sin

And if you don’t repent for that minor sin, then what? I’m not asking you this personally because I know you fully understand that we cannot lose our salvation, I’m just putting it out there for people who push this stuff.

 

[Melach]

And if you don’t repent for that minor sin, then what? I’m not asking you this personally because I know you fully understand that we cannot lose our salvation, I’m just putting it out there for people who push this stuff.

then you lose it after a while i guess

people dont think about consequences of that theology. they are saying we are like catholics where you commit mortal sins you have to confess and if you die in that state its purgatory or hell even.

 

[Melach]

dear friends give me answers on this. are my charismatic family members who seem to love the Lord saved even if they dont believe in once saved always saved? im worried for them.

 

[stonesoffire]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[VCO]

i need to stop visiting the works salvation pushers' threads here. i take it too personally having come out of works salvation. i "run off at the mouth" as big bro says it.

yikes. just had to delete a message was too offtopic and just not christian

Those kind of THREADS, I too stay away from. I am 70 Years old, and some times I cannot remember where I read something. So by staying away from a False Teachers site, I will not make a mistake in quoting the False Teacher, thinking it came from a valid resource.

 

[BillG]

And if you don’t repent for that minor sin, then what? I’m not asking you this personally because I know you fully understand that we cannot lose our salvation, I’m just putting it out there for people who push this stuff.

Then you are out.

 

[BillG]

dear friends give me answers on this. are my charismatic family members who seem to love the Lord saved even if they dont believe in once saved always saved? im worried for them.

I would say yes.

They/we may fall foul off

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

[BillG]

If memory serves even Peter & Paul had disagreements about doctrine.

 

[BillG]

i need to stop visiting the works salvation pushers' threads here. i take it too personally having come out of works salvation. i "run off at the mouth" as big bro says it.

yikes. just had to delete a message was too offtopic and just not christian

Been there, seen it and bought the T-shirt.

As you grow in the correct foundation then taking it personally will start to become less.

Then you will come against it, not personally for you but to protect the babes in Jesus and the immature Christian and those taught such doctrine.

Then you will have the wisdom to discuss and knowledge to know when it's time to leave alone. Shake the dust off your feet.

 

[VCO]

What they ARE saying WHEN they suspect WE CAN LOSE SALVATION, is we Can FOOL an ALL KNOWING GOD, who knows every decision we WILL make during our ENTIRE LIFETIME, into giving us for a short time, ETERNAL LIFE.

NOT!

Isaiah 46:10 (NASB)
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.


FOOLISH PEOPLE THINK THEIR FREE WILL, CAN FOOL A HOLY, ALL KNOWING GOD OF THE UNIVERSE.

NOT!

Salvation is like a Fried Egg, "Can you unfry an egg? Then, after being saved, you cannot undo it."

 

[VCO]

The right question is: ARE YOU GENUINELY SAVED, or Are you a great PRETENDER.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.